From the poundshop raefil, thats fucking hilarious.
Israel/Palestine
- Thread starter Doyler
- Start date
If I remember correctly, a direct quote from you during the violent Burn Loot Murder riots that you were suckered into, was "it's only a statue"
unconvinced
Patron
How very predictable. Almost childlike.
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Theres a world of difference between a statue of a slave trader and a religious shrine but hey, who gives a shit about about the geneva convention eh?
It’s only a piece of stone you said. But I suppose when you’re gullible enough to be taken in by the Burn Loot Murder scam, and the pallywood produced Islamist scum propaganda, then it’s no surprise you’re a sick hypocrite.
So, seeing as Palestinian Christians seem to be the topic of discussion, and that they are somehow oppressed, it is useful to look more deeply. The problem is that, because this is very much a propaganda war that has to appeal to largely Christian countries, both sides want to show that the other side treats Christians badly while they treat them as beloved family. That always skews news and information but, as with all PR/propaganda, as long as you are aware of that, you can still pick out the information you need, often by looking at what is said, how it is said, and why - more importantly, what is not said.
So, after digging around, it seems that the main reasoning behind the idea that Palestinians treat Palestinian Christians badly is the declining population. However, this really does seem to be an example of people assuming that correlation=causation because it suits a particular narrative. The reasons are actually very complex:
Most migrate because of economic reasons - with the Israeli occupation and fear of the settlers as other drivers, with some reports of demolished homes and land seizures. While most have not yet experienced discrimination from Muslims (although it exists) there are some fears that it may arise in the future. There is also a lot of criticism of corruption within Palestinian authorities and they are not liked (most Muslim Palestinians feel the same). Certainly there are many factors, but this often repeated idea that Palestinian Christians are somehow oppressed is tenuous. Interestingly, Christians living in Israel have very similar views about their overall treatment and, for those wanting to migrate, similar reasons:
rossingcenter.org
So, after digging around, it seems that the main reasoning behind the idea that Palestinians treat Palestinian Christians badly is the declining population. However, this really does seem to be an example of people assuming that correlation=causation because it suits a particular narrative. The reasons are actually very complex:
Most migrate because of economic reasons - with the Israeli occupation and fear of the settlers as other drivers, with some reports of demolished homes and land seizures. While most have not yet experienced discrimination from Muslims (although it exists) there are some fears that it may arise in the future. There is also a lot of criticism of corruption within Palestinian authorities and they are not liked (most Muslim Palestinians feel the same). Certainly there are many factors, but this often repeated idea that Palestinian Christians are somehow oppressed is tenuous. Interestingly, Christians living in Israel have very similar views about their overall treatment and, for those wanting to migrate, similar reasons:
Survey of Palestinian/Arab Christians in Israel and East Jerusalem - Rossing Center for Education and Dialogue
This survey, conducted among Palestinian/Arab Christians in Israel and East Jerusalem, provides insights into their perceptions and attitudes regarding freedom of religion, Israeli Jewish society, state authorities, the role of the churches, emigration, and identity.
rossingcenter.org
Mer5eywhite
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Sepp mentions propaganda above. The fact that this conflict attracts such media attention and generates such a passionate response in so many people, is why I largely stay off this thread. It is politicised beyond all belief and elicits extremely partisan reactions from people who are otherwise largely unaffected by it.
There are currently 56 conflicts being monitored worldwide, with 32 being classed as ‘live’ today…
www.cfr.org
This conflict alone has seen Arab forces, previously accused of genocide against non-Arabs and 150000 dead and 12 million homeless since 2022.
www.bbc.co.uk
No marching in the street.
No bi-partisan political posturing.
Occasional media attention.
People need to ask themselves why.
There are currently 56 conflicts being monitored worldwide, with 32 being classed as ‘live’ today…
| CFR Interactives
The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) is an independent, nonpartisan member organization, think tank, and publisher.
www.cfr.org
This conflict alone has seen Arab forces, previously accused of genocide against non-Arabs and 150000 dead and 12 million homeless since 2022.
Sudan war: A simple guide to what is happening
The conflict, which has been raging for over two years, has left millions homeless and at risk of famine.
www.bbc.co.uk
No marching in the street.
No bi-partisan political posturing.
Occasional media attention.
People need to ask themselves why.
unconvinced
Patron
Sepp mentions propaganda above. The fact that this conflict attracts such media attention and generates such a passionate response in so many people, is why I largely stay off this thread. It is politicised beyond all belief and elicits extremely partisan reactions from people who are otherwise largely unaffected by it.
There are currently 56 conflicts being monitored worldwide, with 32 being classed as ‘live’ today…
| CFR Interactives
The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) is an independent, nonpartisan member organization, think tank, and publisher.
This conflict alone has seen Arab forces, previously accused of genocide against non-Arabs and 150000 dead and 12 million homeless since 2022.
Sudan war: A simple guide to what is happening
The conflict, which has been raging for over two years, has left millions homeless and at risk of famine.
No marching in the street.
No bi-partisan political posturing.
Occasional media attention.
People need to ask themselves why.
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2010
- Messages
- 38,074
Sepp mentions propaganda above. The fact that this conflict attracts such media attention and generates such a passionate response in so many people, is why I largely stay off this thread. It is politicised beyond all belief and elicits extremely partisan reactions from people who are otherwise largely unaffected by it.
There are currently 56 conflicts being monitored worldwide, with 32 being classed as ‘live’ today…
| CFR Interactives
The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) is an independent, nonpartisan member organization, think tank, and publisher.
This conflict alone has seen Arab forces, previously accused of genocide against non-Arabs and 150000 dead and 12 million homeless since 2022.
Sudan war: A simple guide to what is happening
The conflict, which has been raging for over two years, has left millions homeless and at risk of famine.
No marching in the street.
No bi-partisan political posturing.
Occasional media attention.
People need to ask themselves why.
You’ve effectively asked a question that you asked a few weeks ago, this time apparently with more detail.
It’s a fair question- but there are some very fair answers - mainly related to how historically, commercially, politically and culturally intertwined Britain is with Israel and Palestine. That’s why it touches us.
I don’t feel uncomfortable that I know little about conflict and injustice in certain parts of Africa or South America or wherever. We only have a certain mental bandwidth and can’t worry about everything everywhere.
Mer5eywhite
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I’m not saying that I know why. I’m just saying that along with the explosive reactions this topic generates, coupled with the certainty with which opinions are delivered, well let’s just say it makes me approach this subject with caution.
We all have to decide for ourselves and I cannot see any reason to be unilateral here. Other than blind prejudice.
Bollocks. It’s because deep down a large majority of Muslims and the large majority of those “on the left” have a problem with the existence of the State of Israel. And slightly lower numbers, especially in the Islamic community, have a huge problem with Jews. The virus of antisemitism has infected the British Muslim community.
Mer5eywhite
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I have a problem with what the Israelis are doing in the West Bank and simultaneously cannot understand support by Muslims for Hamas who murdered their own Islamic political opponents.
The people openly celebrating October 7th on U.K. streets should have been told EMPHATICALLY by the prime minister that this was unacceptable and not aligned with British values.
Certainly a topic we have discussed many times before and it is a view that has some merit - but there are also many reasons why it does dominate debate and news cycles when compared to other conflicts. In my case, proximity is certainly an issue as what happens there does affect us here. Ultimately, it is a conflict that has attracted vast resources into PR on both sides, keeping it at the top of the press cycle and appealing to emotions - when mixed with social media algorithms and using division to promote engagement, that is a volatile mix. Add in politicians and high profile people influencing opinion and even policy-making and it soon spirals out of control - you complain about heightened emotions (with justification), but this all throws fuel into the raging fire of debate.Sepp mentions propaganda above. The fact that this conflict attracts such media attention and generates such a passionate response in so many people, is why I largely stay off this thread. It is politicised beyond all belief and elicits extremely partisan reactions from people who are otherwise largely unaffected by it.
There are currently 56 conflicts being monitored worldwide, with 32 being classed as ‘live’ today…
| CFR Interactives
The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) is an independent, nonpartisan member organization, think tank, and publisher.
This conflict alone has seen Arab forces, previously accused of genocide against non-Arabs and 150000 dead and 12 million homeless since 2022.
Sudan war: A simple guide to what is happening
The conflict, which has been raging for over two years, has left millions homeless and at risk of famine.
No marching in the street.
No bi-partisan political posturing.
Occasional media attention.
People need to ask themselves why.
The other issue for some is the religious angle - the fact that it is a Holy Land for three religions places it in a context different from other conflicts (it is very important to Greeks, for example). Sadly, the extremes pick this up - whether Islamist, Evangelicals in the US, or ethnoreligious Zionists, who are happy to try and portray all of the intricate complexities as a simple two-sided debate. It is in their interests to agitate and inflame. Many other reasons, as we have pointed out before, but it is prominent, emotive, and is not going away. Too many people don't want it to go away.
unconvinced
Patron
And there it is.
Predictable obnoxious claptrap.
An interesting documentary that I saw on Greek TV a while back - am watching it again:
Indeed - and the other thing is that the extremes are always magnified. Most people have fairly moderate views, are not antisemites or zionazis, and can discuss the issue reasonably. But, polarising the debate and dehumanizing groups suits the fools on either side trying to justify everything that the Israeli government/Hamas do - makes it easier to justify their cognitively dissonant views. One of the reasons why this particular conflict is so prominent and causes bitter debate - especially when media and social media mean that people are often exposed to only one side.
Silly me, I’m always forgetting to add source links to my posts…
Prick.Silly me, I’m always forgetting to add source links to my posts…
chorleythehord
Patron
Silly me, I’m always forgetting to add source links to my posts…
No idea where the Muslim institute or Mehdi Hasan stand on the political scale , but that is a refreshingly honest article. There is no doubting the problem exists , and I think he has got the scale of it about right.
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Mehdi Hasan is someone who I have a lot of time for and would say that hes quite a left leaning commentator in US terms.