Matchday Thread PNE v Charlton Athletic - 14/01/25 - KO:7.45pm

diggerb said:
He looks like he may be more of a leader, first game,not been here five minutes, at one stage he was giving the whole defence a real roasting for drifting out of position, positive sign that.
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Spot on. He’s not waiting to be invited to take control.
Looks promising.
 
I suppose a win is a win and into the next round. Extra gate money etc so Ridsdale may splash a few more quid maybe....can only add to the finances can't it.
 
That was a hard watch. Still , a win is a win and through to the next round. Gibson looks promising

Whoever thought it was a good idea to play the Wallace and Gromit music loudly over the tonnoy should be sacked immediately and never set foot in Deepdale ever again… FFS!
 
It's a win and that is what we had to do, they were decent the number 7 looked a handful and they obviously grow them big in South London, Leaburn is a giant.
First goal we scored straight out of the North End defend like a plonker book, mind you theit=r goal was almost as bad. Workmanlike victoory and job done.
Gibson lookd ok hopefully won't be dragged down to our level of mediocrity.
Wembley gets closer
 
Schemer said:
A bit concerning that PH already seems to be talking in similar riddles to Ryan Lowe. I suppose this club gets to them all in the end...
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I don't think it's riddles.

He's saying for "big" games against better opposition the team is more motivated to perform, but just a good performance is expected/accepted, by players and fans alike - a win isn't the goal, "we'll take a draw" is the mantra.

Whereas against "lesser" opposition, it's all reversed. A win is expected, a good performance alone won't do, and the players often can't motivate themselves to deliver either the win or the performance.

It's a mentality problem that we've had since late AN. Lowe identified it but couldn't fix it and likely exacerbated it, and PH here doubts whether it can be fixed too.

I think because it's the club's mentality from the top down - do just enough to make mid-table every year, maybe try and rattle a few bigger teams along the way, but ultimately know and accept our place, and treat most games as routine.

It's a long way from the attitude of SG's teams, or early AN - and maybe just reflects the fact we've been stuck in mid-table in this league for too long now.
 
Thracia said:
I don't think it's riddles.

He's saying for "big" games against better opposition the team is more motivated to perform, but just a good performance is expected/accepted, by players and fans alike - a win isn't the goal, "we'll take a draw" is the mantra.

Whereas against "lesser" opposition, it's all reversed. A win is expected, a good performance alone won't do, and the players often can't motivate themselves to deliver either the win or the performance.

It's a mentality problem that we've had since late AN. Lowe identified it but couldn't fix it and likely exacerbated it, and PH here doubts whether it can be fixed too.

I think because it's the club's mentality from the top down - do just enough to make mid-table every year, maybe try and rattle a few bigger teams along the way, but ultimately know and accept our place, and treat most games as routine.

It's a long way from the attitude of SG's teams, or early AN - and maybe just reflects the fact we've been stuck in mid-table in this league for too long now.
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It's not just the players, he made reference to the fans too. He said about the fans being happy with what they saw against Leeds because we expected to get beat but when we drew against Oxford there was an expectation we'd win so the vibe in the stadium was different. I think the boos at the end of that game would have upset him inwardly and this statement tonight is part of it. Think he's expecting a bit more from the players and the supporters.
 
Like I said last night, I honestly think many of our players lack that drive and personality that helps them to push to the next level. They are what they are to coin a modern phrase - ordinary players being paid an extraordinary wage. We know they’re ordinary, they must know they’re ordinary and that acceptance is going to lead to complacency and acceptance of their situation.

There’s a lot of discussion about various players and their respective talents but the players that stand out are probably accepted as stand outs by most of us. Kesler Hayden is a definite, he’s confident with both feet (something many of our own players aren’t), is wholehearted and never stops. Osmajic is another and possibly McCann.

There are a few of the rest that I like watching and think are important to the team, others who I think are poor (or under achieving in various ways). That list will vary from other people’s but I do find this modern trend of some telling others that they know little or nothing about the game because their opinion is different strange. Maybe it’s defence of favourite players, maybe it’s inability to see that a player we don’t like has positive traits. Either way, I do think my first paragraph applies to many of our players and is part of what the manager is saying.
 
Sorry Thracia, missed you mentioning fan mentality in your post. It's certainly not a riddle I agree. Think he's frustrated and maybe just can't say exactly what he wants to.
 
Randall Flagg said:
It's not just the players, he made reference to the fans too. He said about the fans being happy with what they saw against Leeds because we expected to get beat but when we drew against Oxford there was an expectation we'd win so the vibe in the stadium was different. I think the boos at the end of that game would have upset him inwardly and this statement tonight is part of it. Think he's expecting a bit more from the players and the supporters.
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With fans, I think we’ve had years of frustration and false dawns. We’ve got older people like me who’ve had it for decades and are maybe frustrated with modern football (I certainly am) and many younger ones have known virtually no success. The whole club needs something to get excited about and to lift it, maybe a big cup upset and run is the way to go- at least in the short term.
 
Randall Flagg said:
It's not just the players, he made reference to the fans too. He said about the fans being happy with what they saw against Leeds because we expected to get beat but when we drew against Oxford there was an expectation we'd win so the vibe in the stadium was different. I think the boos at the end of that game would have upset him inwardly and this statement tonight is part of it. Think he's expecting a bit more from the players and the supporters.
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Definitely. Fans locate themselves in the existing pecking order - below Leeds, above Oxford, somewhere mid-table - and calibrate their demands accordingly, between "take a draw" and "must win" - instead of seeing every game as a battle for the win, requiring a good performance every time, and the right mentality from the fans as well as the players, treating each game as a big event, not routine.

But I think PH knows it's difficult to fix this, because the simple truth is we've been in Championship mid-table for a long time now - fans and players alike - and the whole thing has become routine, bad habits have formed, people have become jaded.
 
For me there's an 'Uptightness' about the fan base and it results from decades of disappointment at never getting into the Premier league even for a season when teams around us all have.
We have the odd good spell but even then it's galling to see us (for example) play Forest off the park at their place several times and see where they are now whilst we tred water at best!
I don't think we have too much to complain about in usually being a mid championship club given our resources but it's the lack of any ambition season after season that grinds me down.
'Big talk little action' year after year is bound to breed cynicism, disappointment and even apathy!
For those of us of a certain vintage we know that's been the storyline the seventies at least!

Within the club and amongst the players I think the 'mediocrity will do' approach is endemic and whilst the reason for that is different than that in the stands they end up in the same place .......drifting!
The whole set up needs a big shake up!
 
Butter Pies and Alibis said:
For me there's an 'Uptightness' about the fan base and it results from decades of disappointment at never getting into the Premier league even for a season when teams around us all have.
We have the odd good spell but even then it's galling to see us (for example) play Forest off the park at their place several times and see where they are now whilst we tred water at best!
I don't think we have too much to complain about in usually being a mid championship club given our resources but it's the lack of any ambition season after season that grinds me down.
'Big talk little action' year after year is bound to breed cynicism, disappointment and even apathy!
For those of us of a certain vintage we know that's been the storyline the seventies at least!

Within the club and amongst the players I think the 'mediocrity will do' approach is endemic and whilst the reason for that is different than that in the stands they end up in the same place .......drifting!
The whole set up needs a big shake up!
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I think the lack of ambition, the acceptance of "mediocrity will do" goes back further than the seventies.
The demise of the club and failure to return to the top flight goes back to the retirement of the greatest footballer,Sir Tom.
The club had no plan of how to deal with his retirement and move forward.
It was no coincidence that the season after his retirement the eam were relegation from the top flight of English football never to return to this day.
Countless managers and different owners and boards of Directors have seen teams built,youngsters brought through and then when real investment required,the team disassembled and the best young players sold and not replaced with players of the same standard or quality.
Go back to the youth team of the early sixties and the sixty four Cup Final team, which finished third in the old second division.
What should have been a team to be invested in and build on was left to break up by the 67 season 7 of thev eam had already departed.
The best young players of the 60s sold and not replaced with anything like the same quality, Milne., Kendal,Thompson, Gemmil.
We became a selling to survive club, the seventies was no different, Morley. Lawrenson, Bird, Holden, Baxter, Elwiss and later Robinson.
This has become the Preston way , we've experienced re-election, virtual financial disaster, but survived, we have never though been a club to show that bit more ambition, take that bit of a gamble and aim to get back in to the top flight.
I doubt we will see anything any different with the present owners and mid table Championship status is as far as our ambition goes.🤔🙄☹️
 
Thracia said:
I don't think it's riddles.

He's saying for "big" games against better opposition the team is more motivated to perform, but just a good performance is expected/accepted, by players and fans alike - a win isn't the goal, "we'll take a draw" is the mantra.

Whereas against "lesser" opposition, it's all reversed. A win is expected, a good performance alone won't do, and the players often can't motivate themselves to deliver either the win or the performance.

It's a mentality problem that we've had since late AN. Lowe identified it but couldn't fix it and likely exacerbated it, and PH here doubts whether it can be fixed too.

I think because it's the club's mentality from the top down - do just enough to make mid-table every year, maybe try and rattle a few bigger teams along the way, but ultimately know and accept our place, and treat most games as routine.

It's a long way from the attitude of SG's teams, or early AN - and maybe just reflects the fact we've been stuck in mid-table in this league for too long now.
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That makes perfect sense and explains things here perfectly, so why do we then give lazy contract extensions?
We need a total refresh, I think the manager believes that we need it; but Ridsdale continues to do what he does.
RIDSDALE OUT!
 
Thracia said:
I don't think it's riddles.

He's saying for "big" games against better opposition the team is more motivated to perform, but just a good performance is expected/accepted, by players and fans alike - a win isn't the goal, "we'll take a draw" is the mantra.

Whereas against "lesser" opposition, it's all reversed. A win is expected, a good performance alone won't do, and the players often can't motivate themselves to deliver either the win or the performance.

It's a mentality problem that we've had since late AN. Lowe identified it but couldn't fix it and likely exacerbated it, and PH here doubts whether it can be fixed too.

I think because it's the club's mentality from the top down - do just enough to make mid-table every year, maybe try and rattle a few bigger teams along the way, but ultimately know and accept our place, and treat most games as routine.

It's a long way from the attitude of SG's teams, or early AN - and maybe just reflects the fact we've been stuck in mid-table in this league for too long now.
Click to expand...


In my 40+ years of watching North End it's always been a thing that we play better against the better teams & struggle against teams we're expected to do better against.

Can't explain why & that's obviously a sweeping generalization but it's something I've always thought applied to us no matter what level we've been at.
 
wld said:
With fans, I think we’ve had years of frustration and false dawns. We’ve got older people like me who’ve had it for decades and are maybe frustrated with modern football (I certainly am) and many younger ones have known virtually no success. The whole club needs something to get excited about and to lift it, maybe a big cup upset and run is the way to go- at least in the short term.
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^^^100% this^^^

Sums up my feelings absolutely perfectly.
 
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