School Readiness…

[Mer5eywhite]

Topical today.

Specifically this bit:
One in every 4 pupils not toilet trained when they arrive on their first day at school.

Regular forum users will probably guess my opinion on this but I’m interested to hear other views…

One in four school-starters in England and Wales not toilet-trained, say teachers

School staff report worsening school-readiness with teachers devoting more time to child-support work that parents once did

www.theguardian.com

 

[raefil]

Topical today.

Specifically this bit:
One in every 4 pupils not toilet trained when they arrive on their first day at school.

Regular forum users will probably guess my opinion on this but I’m interested to hear other views…

One in four school-starters in England and Wales not toilet-trained, say teachers

School staff report worsening school-readiness with teachers devoting more time to child-support work that parents once did

www.theguardian.com

Our capitalist society that puts demands on parents to be, "Productive," rather than being more concerned about the "Wellbeing," of both themselves and their children.

 

[pnewortham]

Shit parents, drinking cheap cider

 

[deepdaledreamer]

Topical today.

Specifically this bit:
One in every 4 pupils not toilet trained when they arrive on their first day at school.

Regular forum users will probably guess my opinion on this but I’m interested to hear other views…

One in four school-starters in England and Wales not toilet-trained, say teachers

School staff report worsening school-readiness with teachers devoting more time to child-support work that parents once did

www.theguardian.com

I listened to a debate about this on R4 recently, apparently some 'Parents' have the ridiculous opinion that it is a joint responsibility between parents and the school.
It's basically just lazy parenting and definitely not what Teachers should be doing regularly. There may of course be the odd 'accident' to contend with, but that's a different scenario altogether.

 

[deepdaledreamer]

Our capitalist society that puts demands on parents to be, "Productive," rather than being more concerned about the "Wellbeing," of both themselves and their children.

'Pebble thrown' 🤣
I doubt its generally the 'productive parents' where the problem comes from!!!

 

[raefil]

'Pebble thrown' 🤣
I doubt its generally the 'productive parents' where the problem comes from!!!

I get where you are coming from but right across the social spectrum our kids are not having the same parental contact, and thus guidance, as they did even my days. The pressure for their to be 2 earners is increasing by the year and ssociety is not benefitting one bit because of it.

IMHO, of course.

 

[Mer5eywhite]

Needless to say my opinion differs a little Raef.

If you cannot find the time in 4/5 years to potty train your child then I would call that neglect and possibly even abuse. Yes, 4 and 5 year olds have accidents. Yes, 4 and 5 year olds sometimes still require a nappy overnight because they can’t yet sleep through. However, if you haven’t found time to train them to use a potty/toilet when they are awake then why on Earth are you having kids?

Not taking the time to train your child opens them up to possible psychological problems later in life. It is dereliction of duty as a parent and whilst I can see that there may be some exceptional circumstances which lead to this, there must be a fair number among that 25% who have absolutely no excuse.

It is time we stopped making excuses for people.

 

[raefil]

Needless to say my opinion differs a little Raef.

If you cannot find the time in 4/5 years to potty train your child then I would call that neglect and possibly even abuse. Yes, 4 and 5 year olds have accidents. Yes, 4 and 5 year olds sometimes still require a nappy overnight because they can’t yet sleep through. However, if you haven’t found time to train them to use a potty/toilet when they are awake then why on Earth are you having kids?

Not taking the time to train your child opens them up to possible psychological problems later in life. It is dereliction of duty as a parent and whilst I can see that there may be some exceptional circumstances which lead to this, there must be a fair number among that 25% who have absolutely no excuse.

It is time we stopped making excuses for people.

Good God!!

 

[Mer5eywhite]

Good God!!

It isn’t up to him to train them Raef 🤣

Seriously, I get that some people don’t choose to have their children but whether you do or not, once they’re here I’d expect people to do a much better job than that (outside of exceptional circumstances).

+ Your faux (or perhaps genuine) shock isn’t being used to distract from an issue where you are struggling to find genuine reasons for a lack of personal responsibility is it?

 

[MrHodgeheg123]

I listened to a debate about this on R4 recently, apparently some 'Parents' have the ridiculous opinion that it is a joint responsibility between parents and the school.
It's basically just lazy parenting and definitely not what Teachers should be doing regularly. There may of course be the odd 'accident' to contend with, but that's a different scenario altogether.

Nail on head.
It seens my wife teaches in-between changing nappies some days.

 

[Kathryn]

Nail on head.
It seens my wife teaches in-between changing nappies some days.

That shouldn’t be a teacher’s job.

 

[raefil]

It isn’t up to him to train them Raef 🤣

Seriously, I get that some people don’t choose to have their children but whether you do or not, once they’re here I’d expect people to do a much better job than that (outside of exceptional circumstances).

+ Your faux (or perhaps genuine) shock isn’t being used to distract from an issue where you are struggling to find genuine reasons for a lack of personal responsibility is it?

Not at all.

I hate the judgementalism from some.

I also agree that it isnt a teachers responsibility to change nappies.

I feel, that because of financial pressures, its often the case that way too many children are farmed out to nurseries where, with the best will in the world, undertrained staff are left to deal with children in their most formative years. The years when thy most need that most personal contact with parents.

For me way too many are being dropped of 8 in the morning and then not seeing their parents face for at least 8 hours a day. When they do see them, more often than not, the parents are physically exhausted from a day at work also knowing that, aswell as the child, there are so many domestic duties that have to be done.

Of course its the parents responsibility to cater for ALL their childs needs, almost for life but there are now so many external pressures that bear down and put extreme outside pressure on that responsibility.

My own view, yup, old fashioned, is that in those formative years parents shouldnt have to feel the need for both partners to work full time, thats before even starting on the difficulties a single, working, parent suffers.

This aspect is only one a complete complex of supportive needs that a child has in its formative years that, again IMHO, can only be met by actual parental support in the home.

 

[Mer5eywhite]

Not at all.

I hate the judgementalism from some.

I also agree that it isnt a teachers responsibility to change nappies.

I feel, that because of financial pressures, its often the case that way too many children are farmed out to nurseries where, with the best will in the world, undertrained staff are left to deal with children in their most formative years. The years when thy most need that most personal contact with parents.

For me way too many are being dropped of 8 in the morning and then not seeing their parents face for at least 8 hours a day. When they do see them, more often than not, the parents are physically exhausted from a day at work also knowing that, aswell as the child, there are so many domestic duties that have to be done.

Of course its the parents responsibility to cater for ALL their childs needs, almost for life but there are now so many external pressures that bear down and put extreme outside pressure on that responsibility.

My own view, yup, old fashioned, is that in those formative years parents shouldnt have to feel the need for both partners to work full time, thats before even starting on the difficulties a single, working, parent suffers.

This aspect is only one a complete complex of supportive needs that a child has in its formative years that, again IMHO, can only be met by actual parental support in the home.

I would say that there are some things in there that I would agree with. They are clearly factors, however I am sure that we will find many single parent and traditional dual parent families where both partners work, a great deal, and yet manage to train their toddlers.

Personal responsibility allows people to gain control of their lives, to have agency and to feel empowered. I think we are too ready to seek excuses and apportion blame to business, government or any other faceless organisation. I recall on here explaining that I have told my sons from very young that when something goes wrong they should look at themselves first. It’s how I brought them up. I also recall being called several names for doing that but it’s just something I believe in.

 

[raefil]

I would say that there are some things in there that I would agree with. They are clearly factors, however I am sure that we will find many single parent and traditional dual parent families where both partners work, a great deal, and yet manage to train their toddlers.

Personal responsibility allows people to gain control of their lives, to have agency and to feel empowered. I think we are too ready to seek excuses and apportion blame to business, government or any other faceless organisation. I recall on here explaining that I have told my sons from very young that when something goes wrong they should look at themselves first. It’s how I brought them up. I also recall being called several names for doing that but it’s just something I believe in.

I agree about personal responsibility, but how does that work for someone who is juggling life on basic minimum wages?

Its all too easy for some who havent had the problem of having to work every hour god sends just to meet basic needs, the responsibility of that alone, is massive, to point fingers at others who battle with that reality every day.

Interesting what youve taught your kids because this is what Ive always taught mine baout personal responsibility.

"Do not stress, even for one minute, over the things you cannot control."

 

[Dirty Harry]

You've got an issue with (possibly a small, I'd guess) number of reception kids not being potty trained, and of course there are issues further down the line with older kids refusing to follow behaviour standards. Teachers get very little support from many of the parents of the worst kids, who were usually difficult, badly behaved pupils themselves at school, and who see teachers, and the education system, as an enemy.
It's the attitude that needs to change. Schools can try to do their bit in this aspect, but unless there is help from parents, the school isn't going to succeed with their children.

 

[chorleythehord]

Our capitalist society that puts demands on parents to be, "Productive," rather than being more concerned about the "Wellbeing," of both themselves and their children.

Hmm

I'd be interested to see the breakdown of the kids that arrive at school not toilet trained by parents.

I would hazard a guess that the mums (and dads) who are out there being productive and working hard to try and bring a decent standard of living to their family are at least as, probably more, likely to be doing the basics for their kids like toilet training , encouraging them to look after themselves and providing concern for their wellbeing.

On the other hand, and whilst not being judgemental of all, those that are unproductive, living off benefits and not working whilst perfectly capable of doing so, are more likely to passing their habits on to their kids.

So I could turn that round and blame the welfare state rather than capitalism.

Though I do believe there is a debate to be had about the roles of working mothers in bringing up kids and how we can encourage working parents without disadvantaging children, or indeed making working uneconomical

 

[raefil]

Though I do believe there is a debate to be had about the roles of working mothers Parents in bringing up kids and how we can encourage working parents without disadvantaging children, or indeed making working uneconomical

agree

 

[Mer5eywhite]

I agree about personal responsibility, but how does that work for someone who is juggling life on basic minimum wages?

Its all too easy for some who havent had the problem of having to work every hour god sends just to meet basic needs, the responsibility of that alone, is massive, to point fingers at others who battle with that reality every day.

Interesting what youve taught your kids because this is what Ive always taught mine baout personal responsibility.

"Do not stress, even for one minute, over the things you cannot control."

But challenge injustice

 

[Mer5eywhite]

Hmm

I'd be interested to see the breakdown of the kids that arrive at school not toilet trained by parents.

I would hazard a guess that the mums (and dads) who are out there being productive and working hard to try and bring a decent standard of living to their family are at least as, probably more, likely to be doing the basics for their kids like toilet training , encouraging them to look after themselves and providing concern for their wellbeing.

On the other hand, and whilst not being judgemental of all, those that are unproductive, living off benefits and not working whilst perfectly capable of doing so, are more likely to passing their habits on to their kids.

So I could turn that round and blame the welfare state rather than capitalism.

Though I do believe there is a debate to be had about the roles of working mothers in bringing up kids and how we can encourage working parents without disadvantaging children, or indeed making working uneconomical

I see what you’re saying and agree with much of it although I’ve seen my share of feckless parenting from those with money.

 

[Liberation]

Shit parents, drinking cheap cider

No such thing anymore.... 🙂