- Joined
- Jun 15, 2005
- Messages
- 26,270
-
Hello and welcome to PNE Online.
Why not get the most out of the forum, join in the debate and access a whole range of additional benefits?
We are AD Free and open to all, but by becoming a member you can also find out how you can support us to stay online.
Simply click "register" at the top of the page.
School Readiness…
- Thread starter Mer5eywhite
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2015
- Messages
- 968
Can I just make a suggestion that an increase in children with neurodiversity is also having an impact on this. It is not down to bad parenting, it is down to the delayed development of these children and in most cases the children shouldn't be in mainstream schools. This isn't fair on the neurodiverse pupils or the other pupils and it isn't fair on the teaching team.
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2005
- Messages
- 111,388
Lol, I didnt mean producing children 🙂
More about being, "Economically Active," which are the latest buzz words.
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2005
- Messages
- 26,270
I still don’t see how the two are linked.
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2005
- Messages
- 111,388
Again, its an IMHO, but I dont think that children are getting the quality time with parents that they need, in their formative years, because of the pressures on income that force both parents to have to be working full time.
northender0602
Patron
There is that, but there are some seriously shit parents out there, who basically don’t give a Shit. Then there’s those who have mental health issues, who just don’t function properly, some who had shit parents themselves, so know no better, those who have lots of kids at a very young age to multiple dads, can’t cope with one let alone six, living in vermin infested shitholes. Makes you wonder what sort of future some of those kids will have.
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2005
- Messages
- 26,270
Ok, I agree with that and for working class parents that’s true all too often. But in the case of middle class parents, they both want a career but don’t need more money. In that situation they need to make a choice between kids and career, simple rule is that if you want the latter, don’t have kids.
pnewortham
Patron
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2019
- Messages
- 8,680
Wife is a reception class teacher, so she sees the latest intake of 4/5 year olds every year.
From the last 10 years in that class she knows the correlation between potty training and 'poverty/fecklessness' etc is pretty weak. Sometimes it's the nicer/wealthier/caring parents. (at risk of using labels) They can be just as guilty of outsourcing their childcare to screens & generally defaulting on their apparent obligations, as much as anybody. Arguably more.
Although sometimes it's a medical thing. And sometimes it's the parents not wanting the kid to grow up.
Some of the parents who rock up (or don't, as the case may be) at the school gates are pretty disgusting creatures. Drunk, high, foul language. On a regular basis. And their kids just struggle, full stop. With life, language, behaviour, everything. Plain and simple. It's sad, but they barely have a chance in life. And that's at age 5.
From the last 10 years in that class she knows the correlation between potty training and 'poverty/fecklessness' etc is pretty weak. Sometimes it's the nicer/wealthier/caring parents. (at risk of using labels) They can be just as guilty of outsourcing their childcare to screens & generally defaulting on their apparent obligations, as much as anybody. Arguably more.
Although sometimes it's a medical thing. And sometimes it's the parents not wanting the kid to grow up.
Some of the parents who rock up (or don't, as the case may be) at the school gates are pretty disgusting creatures. Drunk, high, foul language. On a regular basis. And their kids just struggle, full stop. With life, language, behaviour, everything. Plain and simple. It's sad, but they barely have a chance in life. And that's at age 5.
Times have changed a lot. Myself and my wife were young parents who both worked full time, but we put the work in to toilet train our young son. Reasons being it would save us money on nappies, it would make our life easier when we went out and because it needed damn well doing.
Even on this thread there are too many excuses being made for lazy parents. I can remember being knackered when the boy was growing up. He was a bundle of energy who wasn't keen on sleeping, something else we had to work on and in the end he slept alright.
Parenting has changed a lot since I was brought up. Yes back then there was a lot more homes where just the Dad worked, but also he would have had less to do with the bringing up of the children, he'd be there and he'd be up for a kickabout in the street, but a lot of the toddler training would be done by the Mum.
I'm also wondering about the neurodiversity point made on here. Are there more neurodiverse kids or are they now just diagnosed much better now we know more about the various spectrums? I can remember some of the kids from my school would be just described as daft and some naughty, I'm convinced that there were at least three in my primary school who would now be given a lot more help than just being sent to stand in the corridor for disrupting everyone. I think I've gone a bit off piste, but my point is on a lot of things it's hard to compare parental / children's behaviour with how it used to be.
BUT
There are some things that regardless of what else is going on in your life you have a responsibility as a parent to do for your child, instilling a sense of right and wrong is one which though some may not like it, involves discipline and another is nappy training. It's a basic which you even do with a pet dog.
Even on this thread there are too many excuses being made for lazy parents. I can remember being knackered when the boy was growing up. He was a bundle of energy who wasn't keen on sleeping, something else we had to work on and in the end he slept alright.
Parenting has changed a lot since I was brought up. Yes back then there was a lot more homes where just the Dad worked, but also he would have had less to do with the bringing up of the children, he'd be there and he'd be up for a kickabout in the street, but a lot of the toddler training would be done by the Mum.
I'm also wondering about the neurodiversity point made on here. Are there more neurodiverse kids or are they now just diagnosed much better now we know more about the various spectrums? I can remember some of the kids from my school would be just described as daft and some naughty, I'm convinced that there were at least three in my primary school who would now be given a lot more help than just being sent to stand in the corridor for disrupting everyone. I think I've gone a bit off piste, but my point is on a lot of things it's hard to compare parental / children's behaviour with how it used to be.
BUT
There are some things that regardless of what else is going on in your life you have a responsibility as a parent to do for your child, instilling a sense of right and wrong is one which though some may not like it, involves discipline and another is nappy training. It's a basic which you even do with a pet dog.
The missus school had a parental request for someone going into Year 7 to be given a dedicated TA for help using the toilet. First time ever. Maybe more an indication of the lack or more specialist provision which is why kids are being forced into mainstream probably against their actual requirements. Neither the parents the child or the school are winning at this point as per some of the earlier observations. (Notwithstanding sometimes parents are also the cause of this and forcing kids into unsuitable situations because it suits their take/stance rather than their childs needs/wants, I doubt the kid in my first line is going to appreciate being a sole person in that situation in a high school environment either now or when they look back in future)
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2005
- Messages
- 111,388
From an autistic child
School can be a challrnging environment for so many kids. Its not because theyre naughty, not even because they arent bright, they just find it difficult to learn in what is termed, "A normal environment."
School can be a challrnging environment for so many kids. Its not because theyre naughty, not even because they arent bright, they just find it difficult to learn in what is termed, "A normal environment."
Last edited:
deepdaledreamer
Patron
All this may be true of todays Day and age. but ultimately is it of any benefit to give some young people kop outs, to not stretch themselves beyond there natural capabilities., doing so may mean that they do not achieve what they might, because of a 'label' they accept.
I am a Coeliac, who has always been borderline anaemic and only found out when i was in my mid 40's (69 now) but had it from a child ( i also remember having one of those 'embarrassing' episodes at school) whereby i was always really tired by lunchtime, struggling to stay awake, probably under achieved at school as a consequence, had a 'nervous' stomach on top, due to a nervous disposition.
Even today i have to get up 2 hours before leaving the house to 'toilet' properly before i dare leave,
I can easily pass the bi polar tests due to mood swings, but have always worked and 'achieved' to a certain level.
It might have been greater with a better health set, but i feel like i have (more or less) maximised my abilities given the circumstances.
I do not think, for the good of overall society, that it is necessarily good to stick labels on young (or any) people and not require them to try to adhere to the norm.
Otherwise too many of us have a special that with a bit of extra effort can be accommodated within the norm.
As someone who in todays day and age could easily have had a 'label' attached, i feel its too easily attached and should only be for the genuinely impaired - otherwise it can just be a kop out!
Dirty Harry
Patron
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2015
- Messages
- 17,325
It could be argued that this pupil just doesn't like following rules, Raef. Uniform, punctuality, attendance, class behaviour and homework all seem to be issues here.
Assuming the kid is in a mainstream school you'd assume they'd have a TA assigned to help them out.
If not the teacher is juggling dealing with their "behaviour" and teaching the rest of the class. There must come a point when a teacher can't be focusing solely on the needs of one child at the detriment of everyone else.
As @deepdaledreamer says is the kid realising that his/her condition can be used as an excuse for behaviour or is it all genuine? If it is genuine should they be in mainstream school or would they be better at a specialist school.
I might be making too many assumptions about the situation of the child here.
Dirty Harry
Patron
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2015
- Messages
- 17,325
Not doing homework, disruptive behaviour, punctuality and uniform issues can be dealt with according to the school policy. Pupil walking out of lesson and wandering around school - massive safeguarding issue which, if witnessed by OFSTED, would be an immediate 'Inadequate' in the safeguarding category and thus massive implications for the school, other pupils, and leadership staff.
pnewortham
Patron
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2019
- Messages
- 8,680
There are probably kids in every class in every school with ADHD (diagnosed or not). Whilst many classes have a TA, none of these students will qualify for specific 121 help unless there's significant other factors involved.
It's also 100% true that a teacher's time is disproportionately eaten up by a small segment of the class. The 80/20 rule I suppose. It's frustrating for everybody involved, teachers, kids, parents, whatever side of that seesaw you're on.
The struggling kids find it hard to get on. The able kids (and their parents) annoyed at lack of pushing/attention. The school for trying to balance everything.
The best solution is to be a 7 year old Chinese prodigy, complete your A Levels, Degree and Post-Grad and be paying into your pension by age 11.
That's the main problem. That isn't true in many many schools but parents assume it is
Dirty Harry
Patron
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2015
- Messages
- 17,325
Largely due to lack of funding. The other issue is, what happens when these kids leave school? They'll not get any such support in a factory, office, warehouse or building site, and poor attendance/punctuality/refusal to wear safety clothing won't be tolerated.
Yeah the funding is the chronic issue. The Missus Head said the murmurs are some extra funding will come through potentially and if confirmed by DofE they can at least look to add some more TAs. Currently they only have enough to cover the core English/Maths/Science lessons with TAs so all other subjects are without so she has examples like having 20% of a class with EHCPs and no TA support. They were shown the numbers for the new intake of Year 7 and the entire school at the end of previous year had 50 kids with an EHCP in place, the new Year 7 cohort has 45 EHCPs just in that year group
