This corona virus thing...

Which bit was a sack of shit?

How were we treated like idiots?

Patronising Government that had a do as we say rather than as we do mentality, a terrible system of groups and pods allowed to muster together which never worked nor was adhered to. The whole debacle was a sack of shit ( in my opinion)
From non protection of the elderly and vulnerable and the waste of monies on useless ppe which we paid a fortune for then a lot was thrown away....unclear directives on when you could travel etc ( see Cummings etc ) just a poor show all round and many died alone and unnecessarily...just an awful chapter of recent history Nob
 
Which bit was a sack of shit?

How were we treated like idiots?

I'd start off by pointing out the billions wasted on pointless lockdowns and government support ( when other options such as the Swedish model should have been considered) and spectacularly idiotic schemes like track and trace that anyone with an ounce of common sense could see was never going to work. Then rip off contracts for PPE and the like.

Our great grandkids will still be paying for it

Thats not counting the catostrophic human impact of lockdowns on people's mental health, childrens education etc etc

Then add Humiliation of the non-vaccinated and vaccination of children.

It was the biggest take away of basic human freedoms in my life and reaffirmed all my inbuilt scepticms and mistrust of the state , state intervention in to our life and any politician or poltical system that pushes for this.
 
I'd start off by pointing out the billions wasted on pointless lockdowns and government support ( when other options such as the Swedish model should have been considered) and spectacularly idiotic schemes like track and trace that anyone with an ounce of common sense could see was never going to work. Then rip off contracts for PPE and the like.

Our great grandkids will still be paying for it

Thats not counting the catostrophic human impact of lockdowns on people's mental health, childrens education etc etc

Then add Humiliation of the non-vaccinated and vaccination of children.

It was the biggest take away of basic human freedoms in my life and reaffirmed all my inbuilt scepticms and mistrust of the state , state intervention in to our life and any politician or poltical system that pushes for this.

In fairness, the rights or wrong werent eclusively to our own State, it was pretty much worldwide.

Also, have to say, there are people still seriously ill to this day and many more that arent now with us.

I despise Johnson and his govt, always will, but his handling of the pandemic, aside from the obvious corruption, was no better nor worse than many other states.

Perhaps the Swedish model is one to adopt for the future, hidsight is a wonderful thing.
 
In fairness, the rights or wrong werent eclusively to our own State, it was pretty much worldwide.

Also, have to say, there are people still seriously ill to this day and many more that arent now with us.

I despise Johnson and his govt, always will, but his handling of the pandemic, aside from the obvious corruption, was no better nor worse than many other states.

Perhaps the Swedish model is one to adopt for the future, hidsight is a wonderful thing.

Yep, we weren't any less inept.
 
In fairness, the rights or wrong werent eclusively to our own State, it was pretty much worldwide.

Also, have to say, there are people still seriously ill to this day and many more that arent now with us.

I despise Johnson and his govt, always will, but his handling of the pandemic, aside from the obvious corruption, was no better nor worse than many other states.

Perhaps the Swedish model is one to adopt for the future, hidsight is a wonderful thing.

Im no fan of the Johnson Covid government or the leader himself, but i will give him one credit. It was fairly obvious at the time and with hindsight that when the great machine of the state was pushing for more lockdown and more restrictions, he was pulling in the opposite direction. He just didnt have the balls to see them off and go with this instinct
 
Im no fan of the Johnson Covid government or the leader himself, but i will give him one credit. It was fairly obvious at the time and with hindsight that when the great machine of the state was pushing for more lockdown and more restrictions, he was pulling in the opposite direction. He just didnt have the balls to see them off and go with this instinct
That is the saddest thing - the Swedish model was derived from the UK's pandemic plan. Unlike Johnson, Anders Tegnell and the Swedish government stuck to their guns. People, quite correctly, pointed out that the hard lockdowns would prove to be more damaging than the virus and would do little to stop it, but the Zero-Covid fanatics won out. You could see exactly where it was going to lead, but nobody wanted to listen once groupthink took hold.

My main issue is the way in which those of us arguing that case were ridiculed and shouted down, and governments were allowed to censor those views (with many even encouraging it). That was irresponsible and stymied a legitimate debate that could have saved lives. I still find it difficult to forgive those people responsible for that.
 
I'd start off by pointing out the billions wasted on pointless lockdowns and government support ( when other options such as the Swedish model should have been considered) and spectacularly idiotic schemes like track and trace that anyone with an ounce of common sense could see was never going to work. Then rip off contracts for PPE and the like.

Our great grandkids will still be paying for it

Thats not counting the catostrophic human impact of lockdowns on people's mental health, childrens education etc etc

Then add Humiliation of the non-vaccinated and vaccination of children.

It was the biggest take away of basic human freedoms in my life and reaffirmed all my inbuilt scepticms and mistrust of the state , state intervention in to our life and any politician or poltical system that pushes for this.

Pointless lockdowns?

Was this proven to be fact?

Look at how covid ripped through the old folks home.

How do you know if it just let free that the NHS wouldn’t have collapsed, especially after the bastard Tories had decimated it for a decade, meaning millions more could have suffered.

How do you know the vaccine isn’t successful? I had covid twice. Once was horrendous to the extent that I thought I wasn’t going to survive, pre vaccine. Second time was grim but not even comparable after the vaccine. Both my children are vaccinated and I am up to date with mine. Do you actually know of anyone who has had something wrong with them after the vaccine, I don’t.

I agree with the PPE scandal, again down to the bastard Tories. Our grand children will be paying for the ineptness of Tories, and all those that were thick enough to vote for them, also known as Reform voters these days.
 
I'd have to look ( for a first time ) at a precis of "The Official Government Enquiry" to make up my own mind. But here's my 2 peneth of bits & bobs...
1. The messages/advice of the'Chief Medical Officer' who was on telly a lot (Chris Whitty?)- seemed to be at odds with what the Govt. Members were saying. My 'jury's out' on whether he was a prick or not.

2. That "advisor" prick Cummings was found out to be a prick of an advisor, too,with driving up to Durham. Prick
3. There were a lot of dodgy deals made, to line the pockets of mates of Govt. members.
No-one got the boot. Bent bastards.

4. Prime Minister Bojo - he got it, and then I think-it actually dawned on him just how grave this situation really was. Slow thinking Prick.
5. He gave his "blessing"/turned a blind eye to al.those.Downing St.Parties. Prick.
6. The "Health Minister"...( who later went into
Ant & Dec's Jungle. After getting caught snogging his secretary ) Incompetent Prick
7. It DID go through Rest/Retirement/OAP homes like a dose of fuking salts and killed hundreds of the poor things.
8. It DID Choke-Up Hospitals.... (Royal Preston had to erect a massive temporary block across from A&E on that Car Park) ....but I'm unsure how much that was actually utilised.
9. Actions of the Police / (?Stasi? ) on some occasions That's the various Chief Constables
taking orders over enthusiastically. Pricks.
10. I don't know HOW "it" got out of a Chinese Laboratory. But I'm convinced it did, just as much as I'm convinced that it wasn't deliberate & that the Chinese Govt. wouldn't want to deliberately fuck-up their Very Own Economy at all. Chinese Scientists. Pricks
11. By no means At All a 'Trumpite' ( not that I had much faith in Harris, fwiw ) or someone who rooted for 'The Donald'......I think he called that one right.
............So on this issue, actually NOT a Prick 😯
12. To sum up...
A - That I'm Undecided about. Chris Whitty.

B. A lot of Government Bent bastards & their PPE mates, Two Cabinet Ministers, their "advisor", anyone who went to those No10 parties in Lockdown, Lots of Heavy-Handed Police Chiefs ( only obeying orders , natch )and various Chinese Officials including lots of their "Labcoats"....I'm take 'em ALL OUT & Machine-Gun 'em.

C. The guy that I thought would make the most cock-ups of the lot - was probably right. I'd actually let him off. Even if it's unlikely he will ever MAGA.
 
Pointless lockdowns?

Was this proven to be fact?

Look at how covid ripped through the old folks home.

How do you know if it just let free that the NHS wouldn’t have collapsed, especially after the bastard Tories had decimated it for a decade, meaning millions more could have suffered.

How do you know the vaccine isn’t successful? I had covid twice. Once was horrendous to the extent that I thought I wasn’t going to survive, pre vaccine. Second time was grim but not even comparable after the vaccine. Both my children are vaccinated and I am up to date with mine. Do you actually know of anyone who has had something wrong with them after the vaccine, I don’t.

I agree with the PPE scandal, again down to the bastard Tories. Our grand children will be paying for the ineptness of Tories, and all those that were thick enough to vote for them, also known as Reform voters these days.

I think it is a fairly mainstream view now that the cost of many of those, particularLy later, lockdowns , in human as well as financial terms, outweighed any benefit in terms of stopping the spread of the virus. Anyone who tried to point this out at the time was closed down.

I am not anti- vaccine, and had the recommended doses myself ( my health conditions made this a no brainier for me). What I was against was the messaging that went out with the vaccine roll out, the ostracisation of those that chose not to ( a lot down to mistrust of governments caused by the handling of the pandemic) , and the vaccination of children.

I see the role of the government as to advise and perhaps gently encourage its citizens to follow the path they believe is right and let them make their own minds up. And on balance the vaccine was in my view probably a force for the good in the fight against covid, though like all medical interventions not risk free and always with the possibility of side effects. If people choose not to follow that advice, then that is their decision and their risk. The “ show us your papers” and restrictions against the unvaccinated is a shameful episode in our history.
 
I think it is a fairly mainstream view now that the cost of many of those, particularLy later, lockdowns , in human as well as financial terms, outweighed any benefit in terms of stopping the spread of the virus. Anyone who tried to point this out at the time was closed down.

I am not anti- vaccine, and had the recommended doses myself ( my health conditions made this a no brainier for me). What I was against was the messaging that went out with the vaccine roll out, the ostracisation of those that chose not to ( a lot down to mistrust of governments caused by the handling of the pandemic) , and the vaccination of children.

I see the role of the government as to advise and perhaps gently encourage its citizens to follow the path they believe is right and let them make their own minds up. And on balance the vaccine was in my view probably a force for the good in the fight against covid, though like all medical interventions not risk free and always with the possibility of side effects. If people choose not to follow that advice, then that is their decision and their risk. The “ show us your papers” and restrictions against the unvaccinated is a shameful episode in our history.

Then your understanding of the responsibilty of govt is incorrect.

The first duty of the government is to keep citizens safe and the country secure. The Home Office plays a fundamental role in the security and economic prosperity of the UK.



they may have got it wrong but nevertheless their first duty, with the understanding they had, was to protect the people of this country.

There never was compulsion to have the vaccine. Perhaps their approach to encourage people to have it wasnt exactly gentle but there was never an edict of compulsion.
 
Then your understanding of the responsibilty of govt is incorrect.





they may have got it wrong but nevertheless their first duty, with the understanding they had, was to protect the people of this country.

There never was compulsion to have the vaccine. Perhaps their approach to encourage people to have it wasnt exactly gentle but there was never an edict of compulsion.

I dont disagree that the responsibility of the government and the Home Office is to keep its citizens safe and secure , (frightening how they have failed in that regard on other counts), and it is consistent with my view that the extended lockdowns were harmful to our citizens, failing in this obligation.

I do also know that vaccination was not compulsory but the messaging that went out with it, and the shaming of, and restrictions placed on, the unvaccinated was unacceptable in my view. Similarly the push to have children vaccinated.

And I was someone who would have liked to have seen a greater take up of the vaccine across the adult population, certainly the over 50's. I just didnt agree with the way they went about it.
 
That is the saddest thing - the Swedish model was derived from the UK's pandemic plan. Unlike Johnson, Anders Tegnell and the Swedish government stuck to their guns. People, quite correctly, pointed out that the hard lockdowns would prove to be more damaging than the virus and would do little to stop it, but the Zero-Covid fanatics won out. You could see exactly where it was going to lead, but nobody wanted to listen once groupthink took hold.

My main issue is the way in which those of us arguing that case were ridiculed and shouted down, and governments were allowed to censor those views (with many even encouraging it). That was irresponsible and stymied a legitimate debate that could have saved lives. I still find it difficult to forgive those people responsible for that.

100%

And ive repeated this many times - people died because of lockdowns. There are no statistics because this wasn't recorded, but I know 3 who died during the first and second lockdowns because of the effect on their mental health.

I've had people say to me "they would have done it anyway" which I find hard to accept and insulting. The very same people were desperate to stop an airborne virus from killing a 95-year old already in hospital, but are fine with a 25-year old with all their life ahead of them, have that taken away.

There is no conspiracy about this. The actions of the government were wrong, repeatedly. And the media and supposed opposition government all joined in on it.
 
100%

And ive repeated this many times - people died because of lockdowns. There are no statistics because this wasn't recorded, but I know 3 who died during the first and second lockdowns because of the effect on their mental health.

I've had people say to me "they would have done it anyway" which I find hard to accept and insulting. The very same people were desperate to stop an airborne virus from killing a 95-year old already in hospital, but are fine with a 25-year old with all their life ahead of them, have that taken away.

There is no conspiracy about this. The actions of the government were wrong, repeatedly. And the media and supposed opposition government all joined in on it.

Whats truly alarming is how easily manipulated people have been to either sides of this interminable debate. The older generation that lived through war and greater hardship demonstrated generally a robustness and rigour we can only dream off. For many the denial for a few months of the day to day humdrum and freedom to socialise en masse often in a state of inebriation proved too much. Equally, the freedom to travel freely across transport networks at the risk primarily of our key workers that bore the brunt in the statistics was a step too far. God help us when the next national emergency comes along. If the Chinese gunboats arrive, Ill expect some of the same on here arguing either that its not happening, or that on balance its best for the economy and personal freedoms not to resist if you want a proper example of lockdowns rather than our lockdown lite, look to China, France or Italy.
 
Whats truly alarming is how easily manipulated people have been to either sides of this interminable debate. The older generation that lived through war and greater hardship demonstrated generally a robustness and rigour we can only dream off. For many the denial for a few months of the day to day humdrum and freedom to socialise en masse often in a state of inebriation proved too much. Equally, the freedom to travel freely across transport networks at the risk primarily of our key workers that bore the brunt in the statistics was a step too far. God help us when the next national emergency comes along. If the Chinese gunboats arrive, Ill expect some of the same on here arguing either that its not happening, or that on balance its best for the economy and personal freedoms not to resist if you want a proper example of lockdowns rather than our lockdown lite, look to China, France or Italy.

Was it all people complaining about personal effects or were some pointing out that lockdowns would do little to stop the virus and could end up resulting in higher costs to life and wellbeing?

There are many necessary arguments society needs to have. Otherwise, we learn nothing for the next time
 
. Otherwise, we learn nothing for the next time
This is the key, for me, it wont be the great unknown, next time.

I had no problem with the lockdowns, at the time, I know others, like yourself felt strongly against.

In hindsight I think of 2 scenarios.

1) If locking down it should have been a whole lot earlier.
2) The only people to be locked down should have been the 70+ group and the "Immune," vulnerable.

Im not sure how scenario 2 could have ever worked, but maybe thats the route that should have been taken, initially.

I look at Sweden and I note that their health system wasnt under the stress, pre pandemic, that ours was so Im not convinced with our countries circumstances that this would have worked, either.

The only conclusion I come to, is one which has received even more criticism and thats the vaccination route, and maybe now theyre getting that right in that, like the flu vaccine, its being offered only to elderly and the vulnerable. This option wasnt available at the start and all they really had was Scietific advice from around the world which, bar a few outliers, was consistently to close borders and lock down.

Going forward the vaccine has now had time for full development and is being used, IMHO, in the correct way.

Our health system still hasnt recovered.
 
This is the key, for me, it wont be the great unknown, next time.

I had no problem with the lockdowns, at the time, I know others, like yourself felt strongly against.

In hindsight I think of 2 scenarios.

1) If locking down it should have been a whole lot earlier.
2) The only people to be locked down should have been the 70+ group and the "Immune," vulnerable.

Im not sure how scenario 2 could have ever worked, but maybe thats the route that should have been taken, initially.

I look at Sweden and I note that their health system wasnt under the stress, pre pandemic, that ours was so Im not convinced with our countries circumstances that this would have worked, either.

The only conclusion I come to, is one which has received even more criticism and thats the vaccination route, and maybe now theyre getting that right in that, like the flu vaccine, its being offered only to elderly and the vulnerable. This option wasnt available at the start and all they really had was Scietific advice from around the world which, bar a few outliers, was consistently to close borders and lock down.

Going forward the vaccine has now had time for full development and is being used, IMHO, in the correct way.

Our health system still hasnt recovered.

Absolutely no problem with that at all - and fully agree that building healthcare capacity should be a priority (sadly, too many governments are not doing this) - with a flexible pandemic plan.

As you know, my issue was with the way any alternative views were side-lined - both through government censorship and psychology (all well documented) which sadly led to fear, anger, and lashing out on all sides. Especially with science, you need dissent, opposing views, and people who will state uncomfortable truths. Some of the advice completely ignored biology and how viruses and the immune system actually behave - but we have already been over that several times!

I got fed up of being called ignorant, selfish, a granny killer, right wing, and other such choice names during the pandemic when all I wanted was for it to cost as few lives as possible. One of the reasons why I dislike snide posts like Pete's which roll out the same tired tropes.
 
Absolutely no problem with that at all - and fully agree that building healthcare capacity should be a priority (sadly, too many governments are not doing this) - with a flexible pandemic plan.

As you know, my issue was with the way any alternative views were side-lined - both through government censorship and psychology (all well documented) which sadly led to fear, anger, and lashing out on all sides. Especially with science, you need dissent, opposing views, and people who will state uncomfortable truths. Some of the advice completely ignored biology and how viruses and the immune system actually behave - but we have already been over that several times!

I got fed up of being called ignorant, selfish, a granny killer, right wing, and other such choice names during the pandemic when all I wanted was for it to cost as few lives as possible. One of the reasons why I dislike snide posts like Pete's which roll out the same tired tropes.
And that was just from me 🙂
 
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