weightlifting

[pnesaint]

Outrageous!

Laurel Hubbard: First transgender athlete to compete at Olympics

NZ weightlifter Laurel Hubbard is headed for Tokyo but critics say she has an unfair advantage.

www.bbc.co.uk

I wonder if you can see the shape of his dick through the leotard? That would be rather incongruous!

 

[raefil]

I have real problems with this but your comment is poor, TBH.

 

[daddyman16]

I mean, if a person's testosterone levels and whatnot are down/up to those levels of the gender they feel that they are, fair enough... I guess. I assume this athlete is at that level, biologically if not visually.
Personally I don't agree with it, but that's the good thing about freedom of thought, we don't have to agree for things to still happen and things can happen but we don't have to agree.

 

[Lord Edgington]

Impossible to comment unless armed with all of the facts
Feels a bit like the pistorius discussion

 

[Regardless]

I mean, if a person's testosterone levels and whatnot are down/up to those levels of the gender they feel that they are, fair enough... I guess. I assume this athlete is at that level, biologically if not visually.
Personally I don't agree with it, but that's the good thing about freedom of thought, we don't have to agree for things to still happen and things can happen but we don't have to agree.

OK - but this is not just an inconsequential issue where we should just shrug and be glad that there is freedom of thought.

Somewhere in New Zealand, there is another woman who won’t be fulfilling a dream of representing herself and her country at the Olympics. Someone who will have sacrificed so much to maximise her performance - for half a lifetime. If this athlete wins a medal, then other competitor’s/ competitors’ dreams will be smashed.

It’s critical the decision is fair. If this person’s male hormones helped build her musculoskeletal frame, then it’s hard to see how the competition is fair, even if current hormone levels are in a female range.

 

[Bristol White]

Hubbard was 39 when she won her first title. The average age of world champion weight lifters is mid 20's. Either she is some kind of special talent in which case she would have been an olympic level weight lifter in her peak years living as a male (she wasn't) or she has an unfair advantage. Not really much need for discussion about testosterone levels imo. Oh and another thing while we're on this subject, not that it's got as much coverage because she a isn't brave and stunning trans woman, merely a woman who was born with elevated testosterone levels, but Caster Semenya will not be at the Olympics this year because her (naturally occurring) testosterone levels are now deemed to high (rules brought in to accommodate trans athletes) and she quite rightly refuses to take drugs to artificially suppress them, so in order to accommodate 39 year old women who were born male like Hubbard we have chucked one of the greatest female athletes in recent years under the bus. The whole thing stinks.

 

[daddyman16]

It’s critical the decision is fair. If this person’s male hormones helped build her musculoskeletal frame, then it’s hard to see how the competition is fair, even if current hormone levels are in a female range.

That's a fair point, before being a Laurel who lifted weights, there was a Gavin who lifted weights.

 

[Sepp Blatter]

OK - but this is not just an inconsequential issue where we should just shrug and be glad that there is freedom of thought.

Somewhere in New Zealand, there is another woman who won’t be fulfilling a dream of representing herself and her country at the Olympics. Someone who will have sacrificed so much to maximise her performance - for half a lifetime. If this athlete wins a medal, then other competitor’s/ competitors’ dreams will be smashed.

It’s critical the decision is fair. If this person’s male hormones helped build her musculoskeletal frame, then it’s hard to see how the competition is fair, even if current hormone levels are in a female range.

^This

It's not equal and never will be - someone who has gone through male puberty is going to have many more physiological advantages in size, skeleton, and many other factors. That is simple biology.

Plus, how long until 'gender doping' becomes an issue? Instead of men cheating and taking more testosterone to win, you can lower your levels, declare yourself a woman, and win medals.

 

[Regardless]

Hubbard was 39 when she won her first title. The average age of world champion weight lifters is mid 20's. Either she is some kind of special talent in which case she would have been an olympic level weight lifter in her peak years living as a male (she wasn't) or she has an unfair advantage. Not really much need for discussion about testosterone levels imo. Oh and another thing while we're on this subject, not that it's got as much coverage because she a isn't brave and stunning trans woman, merely a woman who was born with elevated testosterone levels, but Caster Semenya will not be at the Olympics this year because her (naturally occurring) testosterone levels are now deemed to high (rules brought in to accommodate trans athletes) and she quite rightly refuses to take drugs to artificially suppress them, so in order to accommodate 39 year old women who were born male like Hubbard we have chucked one of the greatest female athletes in recent years under the bus. The whole thing stinks.

I had noticed that Caster Semenya had failed again to qualify. I used to know more about her case (forgotten a lot).

Is it really true to say that the max testosterone levels were brought in to accommodate trans athletes? I thought it was unrelated- more to do with accommodating people on the intersex spectrum - but that’s absolutely a genuine question. I don’t know.

 

[Bristol White]

I had noticed that Caster Semenya had failed again to qualify. I used to know more about her case (forgotten a lot).

Is it really true to say that the max testosterone levels were brought in to accommodate trans athletes? I thought it was unrelated- more to do with accommodating people on the intersex spectrum - but that’s absolutely a genuine question. I don’t know.

Actually you are right on that. These rules were brought in originally to stop intersex people from having an unfair advantage but I'm not convinced that the big ruling in 2018 was all about intersex people. Maybe I'm doing the IAAF a disservice here but the fact they brought this ruling out in 2018 and then a year later extended it to include trans women seems a bit convenient to me. Much easier to have this discussion in the context of intersex athletes than trans athletes. Who knows?