"we're fucked" UN on climate change

[northender0602]

Not unless he's had a bang on the head...For all JT's strange beliefs and posts he never used language like that or abused( depends on your definition I suppose ) other posters... This clot is just nasty.. Shame he's gone really, he was making a proper arse of himself..

mr Small forest Mars bars or waltz? I’ve had to space the first one out because it keeps defaulting to “small forest” 🤣

dont know why but mr W defaults to small forest when I save???

 

[LostinSpace]

mr Small forest Mars bars or waltz? I’ve had to space the first one out because it keeps defaulting to “small forest” 🤣

dont know why but mr W defaults to small forest when I save???

Haven't you worked that out yet? 😂

For your mystery alter ego, try Hydroman.

 

[northender0602]

Haven't you worked that out yet? 😂

For your mystery alter ego, try Hydroman.

It’s weird I type it out everything’s fine, but when its posted it had changed, went back in changed it, everything fine, saved it and it just changed it Weird 🤔

 

[LostinSpace]

It’s weird I type it out everything’s fine, but when its posted it had changed, went back in changed it, everything fine, saved it and it just changed it Weird 🤔

The curse of Voldemort is indeed spooky! 😂

 

[northender0602]

The curse of Voldemort is indeed spooky! 😂

I’ve had that as well! is it just a halloween wind up?

 

[LostinSpace]

I’ve had that as well! is it just a halloween wind up?

Nope, it’s forever. Never again shall his name be spoken on here.

 

[26-0]

A number of people whose thinking I take an interest in have contributed to a new book called 'The Climate Book'.

Instead of engaging with the themes much of the discourse around its release revolved around the printing of a physical book as the ignoramus of Twitter heartily engaged in their 'gotcha' moments.

It's so frustrating that so many people appear to be unwilling to engage on the changes to our world.

I agree.

One way or another though we’ll all eventually “become engaged”.

We could and should have taken the issue seriously a long time ago in order to keep global temp rises to an acceptable level. We haven’t and too many still aren’t. We still ignore the overwhelming scientific evidence. And so the problems we face will be even greater.

I can’t imagine the climate deniers being too enthralled at the prospect of millions migrating from what are now becoming uninhabitable regions of the world to countries such as the UK and yet ironically their own actions and influence is what’s accelerating that particular problem.

Those with children and grandchildren have a real stake in the future of the world even if those without might feel its worth just living for today and sodding the consequences.

 

[Took My Heart]

I agree.

One way or another though we’ll all eventually “become engaged”.

We could and should have taken the issue seriously a long time ago in order to keep global temp rises to an acceptable level. We haven’t and too many still aren’t. We still ignore the overwhelming scientific evidence. And so the problems we face will be even greater.

I can’t imagine the climate deniers being too enthralled at the prospect of millions migrating from what are now becoming uninhabitable regions of the world to countries such as the UK and yet ironically their own actions and influence is what’s accelerating that particular problem.

Those with children and grandchildren have a real stake in the future of the world even if those without might feel its worth just living for today and sodding the consequences.

I was 17, in 1992 and a friend was waving a tatty old paperback in my face describing how fucked the planet was and how we needed to act 'now'.

I remember my friend being really passionate, describing the book written in the 60s which outlined the threat of climate change and how a quarter of a century later no one was paying attention.

It never left me, and not long after that I started to learn more and as an adult tried to change my diet, behaviours etc.

I often think about this lad and how 30 years later from his 'we need to act now', we still haven't really done anything.

I know I have mentioned on here in the past the work undertaken in the 60s regarding the limits to 'growth' and yet right now we have politicians talking about how it is desirable as the only measure of success

 

[Winkytinky]

Thought I'd stick this here, really interesting interview with Chris Packham

 

[nigelscamelcoat]

Thought I'd stick this here, really interesting interview with Chris Packham

I'll watch that later winks, thanks for posting. I have so much time for Chris Packham.

 

[Winkytinky]

I'll watch that later winks, thanks for posting. I have so much time for Chris Packham.

Same, I really like him.

 

[Sepp Blatter]

I was 17, in 1992 and a friend was waving a tatty old paperback in my face describing how fucked the planet was and how we needed to act 'now'.

I remember my friend being really passionate, describing the book written in the 60s which outlined the threat of climate change and how a quarter of a century later no one was paying attention.

It never left me, and not long after that I started to learn more and as an adult tried to change my diet, behaviours etc.

I often think about this lad and how 30 years later from his 'we need to act now', we still haven't really done anything.

I know I have mentioned on here in the past the work undertaken in the 60s regarding the limits to 'growth' and yet right now we have politicians talking about how it is desirable as the only measure of success

Started my degree in 92 and it was pretty widely accepted then - moving it from academia to the wider public was the next phase.

Does remind me of a conversation I had with my friend's dad - he was conservative and seeing me with long hair and hippy attire set him off on a rather heated diatribe about environmentalists. But, as we shared a bottle of single malt, it soon became clear that we actually agreed on far more than we disagreed. I used fisheries as an example (this was in Aberdeen) and found he was fully onboard with sustainability and taking only what the environment could support - better for the long term economy as well as the environment. As an engineer, he was a big supporter of wave power.

A couple of things stuck in my head - firstly, that there is always a middle ground and that letting the extremes dominate the debate is counterproductive. I am not a fan of climate change deniers but think that the people at the other extreme cause just as much damage. That stayed with me and I am happy to criticise my own 'side' if I feel it is needed (I detested Al Gore )

Secondly, he warned that greedy people would find ways to subvert environmentalism and use it as a Trojan Horse for their own benefit. Thirty years later, he has been proved right IMO. Too many wealthy people see the environment as a marketing tool for a spot of virtue signalling, or use it as an 'accounting tool.'

 

[Æthelstan]

So COP 27 has started.

They’ll be a lot of headline grabbing statements and an equal number of politicians promising this that and the other to get it all sorted.

Let’s face it though, talk is cheap.

Despite all the ambitious yet ambiguous sounding statements that politicians will make, I seriously doubt anything of note will actually happen.

I wonder how much carbon is being pumped out to fly all these attendees out to Egypt also 🤡

 

[prestonmadhouse]

So COP 27 has started.


I wonder how much carbon is being pumped out to fly all these attendees out to Egypt also 🤡

Don’t worry, all the flights will be carbon neutral 🤔

Carbon neutral = rich people paying an extra tenner to carry on as they were 😟

You’re right, talk is cheap 😔😔

 

[TSR2]

Same, I really like him.

My cats love him

 

[TSR2]

https://populationmatters.org/our-patrons-2/​

 

[Took My Heart]

https://populationmatters.org/our-patrons-2/​

Always been a bit concerned when people in the West suggest overpopulation is the biggest problem we face.

It's similar to the problem of the likes of China, India and Brazil polluting more by having nice cars and eating more meat.

One would be foolish not to consider the size of the Earth's population as a major factor but I am uncomfortable with often wealthy, mostly white westerners (with falling birth rates of course) blaming the global south for the environmental wreckage caused since the Industrial Revolution, when only relatively recently have the Global South been a major contributor to the world's environmental damage.

Of course, restricting the number of people also impacts the numbers of people in places like China which drive the world's manufacturing economies...

I used to read a lot of primitivist type ecological news and the logical conclusion of their argument would mean a genocide of most of the world's population.

I think there are more ecological and sustainable ways of living and I think religion and access to health care leads to more people being born than perhaps desired (and even that is loaded as if poorer people can't make choices about how many kids they have). I sometimes think the overpopulation argument blames the victims of climate change rather than the conditions that caused it.

 

[Took My Heart]

Started my degree in 92 and it was pretty widely accepted then - moving it from academia to the wider public was the next phase.

Does remind me of a conversation I had with my friend's dad - he was conservative and seeing me with long hair and hippy attire set him off on a rather heated diatribe about environmentalists. But, as we shared a bottle of single malt, it soon became clear that we actually agreed on far more than we disagreed. I used fisheries as an example (this was in Aberdeen) and found he was fully onboard with sustainability and taking only what the environment could support - better for the long term economy as well as the environment. As an engineer, he was a big supporter of wave power.

A couple of things stuck in my head - firstly, that there is always a middle ground and that letting the extremes dominate the debate is counterproductive. I am not a fan of climate change deniers but think that the people at the other extreme cause just as much damage. That stayed with me and I am happy to criticise my own 'side' if I feel it is needed (I detested Al Gore )

Secondly, he warned that greedy people would find ways to subvert environmentalism and use it as a Trojan Horse for their own benefit. Thirty years later, he has been proved right IMO. Too many wealthy people see the environment as a marketing tool for a spot of virtue signalling, or use it as an 'accounting tool.'

I know you're not fond of extremes, but at least those on the 'extremes' push the issue somehow. I went vegan over a quarter of a century ago and was often simply not understood regarding my ethical choices, now veganism is widely understood. Sometimes I think we can get splinters on our arse sitting on the fence trying to find a middle ground.

All that said, I do agree with you that finding those points of connection with people is vitally important. Once you understand what matters to a person one often finds our core values are rarely that dissimilar. So whilst there is a place for confrontational activism like Just Stop Oil, there is also a place for a good conversation, some deep listening and finding the points of intervention. I am pretty certain that every user on this forum for instance cares about the planet.

Sadly, we can all influence each other privately and we can tinker around the edges but it's the rich and powerful who have vested interests in raping the earth we need to convince and that's much harder.

Cop27, like seemingly every climate conference in the last 20 years are discussions about maybe committing to do something later

 

[Sepp Blatter]

I know you're not fond of extremes, but at least those on the 'extremes' push the issue somehow. I went vegan over a quarter of a century ago and was often simply not understood regarding my ethical choices, now veganism is widely understood. Sometimes I think we can get splinters on our arse sitting on the fence trying to find a middle ground.

All that said, I do agree with you that finding those points of connection with people is vitally important. Once you understand what matters to a person one often finds our core values are rarely that dissimilar. So whilst there is a place for confrontational activism like Just Stop Oil, there is also a place for a good conversation, some deep listening and finding the points of intervention. I am pretty certain that every user on this forum for instance cares about the planet.

Sadly, we can all influence each other privately and we can tinker around the edges but it's the rich and powerful who have vested interests in raping the earth we need to convince and that's much harder.

Cop27, like seemingly every climate conference in the last 20 years are discussions about maybe committing to do something later

Actually agree with most of that and I don't have an issue with initial activism - but, it eventually becomes counterproductive. Had a similar experience when I turned veggie at school - yet here we are, where things have moved on and people accept it. Sadly, I found that the people who were very militant simply ended up pissing people off - not just people on the 'other side' of debate, but also people on 'their side.' However much you did, it was never enough. You can achieve a lot and push issues forwards by taking a slower approach without receiving the proverbial splinters. The gay rights movement was the same - after initial activism, it became a lesson in persuasion and patience.

I have two main issues with the extremes on the climate change debate - firstly, the extremes pissing everyone off until they stop listening. There is a lot of good work that goes unnoticed, sadly. Secondly, that the focus on climate change means that people are sidelining other issues. Not all forest fires are down to global warming; not all flooding is down to rising sea levels or a changing climate; the same for droughts and famines.

Climate change is often a reason or major factor, but always pointing at it as the reason covers up many other problems and gives governments and corporations an easy get out card. They can wave their hands, claim they are installing wind turbines and buying carbon credits instead of stopping coastal development and land erosion. They can escape censure for cutting funding for forest management or waterway management - as you said, make some promises for the future. IMO, the green movement is becoming subverted and the powerful are already finding ways to play the system to their own advantage.

The climate debate has become very partisan - and the actual science matters less and less. Just like covid.

 

[northender0602]

I know you're not fond of extremes, but at least those on the 'extremes' push the issue somehow. I went vegan over a quarter of a century ago and was often simply not understood regarding my ethical choices, now veganism is widely understood. Sometimes I think we can get splinters on our arse sitting on the fence trying to find a middle ground.

All that said, I do agree with you that finding those points of connection with people is vitally important. Once you understand what matters to a person one often finds our core values are rarely that dissimilar. So whilst there is a place for confrontational activism like Just Stop Oil, there is also a place for a good conversation, some deep listening and finding the points of intervention. I am pretty certain that every user on this forum for instance cares about the planet.

Sadly, we can all influence each other privately and we can tinker around the edges but it's the rich and powerful who have vested interests in raping the earth we need to convince and that's much harder.

Cop27, like seemingly every climate conference in the last 20 years are discussions about maybe committing to do something later

Yeah they tell us to reduce our carbon footprint etc, then jump on a plane, sometimes or more likely a private one to attend these summits, not do as I do, but do as I say springs to mind.