Why do people give justification of our owner?

[dawsonsjs]

The current situation is life as a PNE fan (and a damn sight better than it has been for much of the last 60 years). There is NO magic plan to get the club into the Prem as clubs like Wednesday, Forest, Derby, Sunderland, Portsmouth etc have all discovered throwing money at unaffordable transfers and wages guarantees one thing only.

As for Barnsley Ellie they have just had their best season since leaving the Prem in 1998...finishing 7 or 8 points ahead of us. When the Chinese American consortium took them over it was made clear that they would not be throwing money at the club...they had bought it to gain experience of English football. They have done well this season for three reasons, some decent recruits (inc ones identified by James Beet), a new manager who has exceeded all expectations, and the American boss who knew the cf they were able to bring in at Christmas and scored some great goals for them. In other words a fortuitous combination of circumstance , two of which PNE is following. Let's see if Barnsley can keep it going next season because a number of their players , inc best ones such as Mowatt are out of contract and they face exactly the same situation as PNE has had. !

Seems to me that some of you have a deluded glory hunting mentality....in terms of size as measure by either gates and income PNE is a bottom end Champ/ top end League 1 sized club....Preston (and the catchment area) is not big enough to support a Prem club. You can say the same about Burnley but they got in before the current level of parachute payments and FFP rules....but if they ever come down then unlike PNE they are utterly sunk because the leveraged takeover is not fundable with Championship income. . Like wise Rovers are sunk as soon as creditors come knocking...currently carrying around £150m of debt.

PNE's problem is not the owner ..but a small number of deluded fans who take the view that unless the club continues to exceed all rightful expectation it's not worth supporting and this is all the owner's fault for not throwing an (unallowable) level of money at it.

The reality is that going forward is substantially out of PNE's control. It is what it is. Until there is more of a financial level playing field a club PNE's size can only hope that with shrewd management, recruitment and a slice of luck on the injury front it can make a play-off place. . In the meantime staying in the Champ and keeping operating losses down as much as possible is the only sensible priority and one ensuring the club's survival.

And if that isn't good enough for you and you can't enjoy it then I feel sorry for you ..I wouldn't wish to see the club lose any fans but who wants to listen to uninformed and irrational whining over an owner who has so far put in more than £100m into the club.

 

[Peter Bulmer]

£200 season tickets are no good to the future of our club, we need to invest in getting the kids in to Deepdale, they are the future, not short term gimmicks over pricing.

 

[Lord Edgington]

The current situation is life as a PNE fan (and a damn sight better than it has been for much of the last 60 years). There is NO magic plan to get the club into the Prem as clubs like Wednesday, Forest, Derby, Sunderland, Portsmouth etc have all discovered throwing money at unaffordable transfers and wages guarantees one thing only.

As for Barnsley Ellie they have just had their best season since leaving the Prem in 1998...finishing 7 or 8 points ahead of us. When the Chinese American consortium took them over it was made clear that they would not be throwing money at the club...they had bought it to gain experience of English football. They have done well this season for three reasons, some decent recruits (inc ones identified by James Beet), a new manager who has exceeded all expectations, and the American boss who knew the cf they were able to bring in at Christmas and scored some great goals for them. In other words a fortuitous combination of circumstance , two of which PNE is following. Let's see if Barnsley can keep it going next season because a number of their players , inc best ones such as Mowatt are out of contract and they face exactly the same situation as PNE has had. !

Seems to me that some of you have a deluded glory hunting mentality....in terms of size as measure by either gates and income PNE is a bottom end Champ/ top end League 1 sized club....Preston (and the catchment area) is not big enough to support a Prem club. You can say the same about Burnley but they got in before the current level of parachute payments and FFP rules....but if they ever come down then unlike PNE they are utterly sunk because the leveraged takeover is not fundable with Championship income. . Like wise Rovers are sunk as soon as creditors come knocking...currently carrying around £150m of debt.

PNE's problem is not the owner ..but a small number of deluded fans who take the view that unless the club continues to exceed all rightful expectation it's not worth supporting and this is all the owner's fault for not throwing an (unallowable) level of money at it.

The reality is that going forward is substantially out of PNE's control. It is what it is. Until there is more of a financial level playing field a club PNE's size can only hope that with shrewd management, recruitment and a slice of luck on the injury front it can make a play-off place. . In the meantime staying in the Champ and keeping operating losses down as much as possible is the only sensible priority and one ensuring the club's survival.

And if that isn't good enough for you and you can't enjoy it then I feel sorry for you ..I wouldn't wish to see the club lose any fans but who wants to listen to uninformed and irrational whining over an owner who has so far put in more than £100m into the club.

Just when I offered some support you offered a 1000 word essay 🤷‍♂️🤔😀

 

[California_PNE]

Did I miss the answers about us spending the investment better?

 

[FredElseFlyer]

Did I miss the answers about us spending the investment better?

No, it wasn't mentioned (I expect, couldn't be arsed reading another of his pointless essays).

 

[JK]

The current situation is life as a PNE fan (and a damn sight better than it has been for much of the last 60 years). There is NO magic plan to get the club into the Prem as clubs like Wednesday, Forest, Derby, Sunderland, Portsmouth etc have all discovered throwing money at unaffordable transfers and wages guarantees one thing only.

As for Barnsley Ellie they have just had their best season since leaving the Prem in 1998...finishing 7 or 8 points ahead of us. When the Chinese American consortium took them over it was made clear that they would not be throwing money at the club...they had bought it to gain experience of English football. They have done well this season for three reasons, some decent recruits (inc ones identified by James Beet), a new manager who has exceeded all expectations, and the American boss who knew the cf they were able to bring in at Christmas and scored some great goals for them. In other words a fortuitous combination of circumstance , two of which PNE is following. Let's see if Barnsley can keep it going next season because a number of their players , inc best ones such as Mowatt are out of contract and they face exactly the same situation as PNE has had. !

Seems to me that some of you have a deluded glory hunting mentality....in terms of size as measure by either gates and income PNE is a bottom end Champ/ top end League 1 sized club....Preston (and the catchment area) is not big enough to support a Prem club. You can say the same about Burnley but they got in before the current level of parachute payments and FFP rules....but if they ever come down then unlike PNE they are utterly sunk because the leveraged takeover is not fundable with Championship income. . Like wise Rovers are sunk as soon as creditors come knocking...currently carrying around £150m of debt.

PNE's problem is not the owner ..but a small number of deluded fans who take the view that unless the club continues to exceed all rightful expectation it's not worth supporting and this is all the owner's fault for not throwing an (unallowable) level of money at it.

The reality is that going forward is substantially out of PNE's control. It is what it is. Until there is more of a financial level playing field a club PNE's size can only hope that with shrewd management, recruitment and a slice of luck on the injury front it can make a play-off place. . In the meantime staying in the Champ and keeping operating losses down as much as possible is the only sensible priority and one ensuring the club's survival.

And if that isn't good enough for you and you can't enjoy it then I feel sorry for you ..I wouldn't wish to see the club lose any fans but who wants to listen to uninformed and irrational whining over an owner who has so far put in more than £100m into the club.

Christ almighty I wrote less for my dissertation at university.

I stopped reading when you accused North End fans of being glory hunters.......

 

[dawsonsjs]

Not the only thing you missed California..as both you and Thracia failed to answer the q's I raised. And as the money put in by TH goes towards meeting the players wage bill, insurance and pension contributions how else do you think it should be spent?

You went to Uni did you JK? Unless you were the caretaker do you think you could correct the grammar in Ellie's headline?

 

[Lord Edgington]

Not the only thing you missed California..as both you and Thracia failed to answer the q's I raised. And as the money put in by TH goes towards meeting the players wage bill, insurance and pension contributions how else do you think it should be spent?

You went to Uni did you JK? Unless you were the caretaker do you think you could correct the grammar in Ellie's headline?

For the correct grammar I wouldn’t go anywhere near a university these days 🤷‍♂️

 

[Lord Edgington]

Did I miss the answers about us spending the investment better?

Yes
Simple really
Trev decides what to do with it and the cycle continues
There’s a bit in there also about an address for the complaints department - it’s a PO Box in the IOM I believe

 

[europne]

How anyone can defend Derek Shaw is highly amusing.

When Baxi and GRAY up and left? You mean after year on year of progression and probably overseeing the most scusseful period of the last 50 years... have a word with yourself.

Derek Shaw and his mate Jackson didn't have a clue what they where doing. Even when Jackson left Derek got the club into a position where he relied on pleading with the owner for cash at every opertunity. We sold key assets for peanuts, we lost some of the most infuential players and managers. Which ultimately led to unpaid HRMC bills and Hemmings shafting the shareholders by acquiring the club for nowt.

The FOPNE even charged the club rent for the Legends building.

Back onto present days it looks to me from reading this thread there are folk who must work for Hemmings or the club. They are so blinded and one sided it's staggering.

If finishing mid table in the Championship is all we should ever settle for, not having and aspirations or hopes then what is the bloody point eh?

You haven’t a clue what really happened have you Fulwood, like so many others you need someone to blame and DS is the fall guy, well I will tell you the straight reality. Unfortunately you probably won’t accept it but here it is.

North End were suffering from the 50 directors ( just put in £10k ), most had buggered off leaving Leeming then Garrett and eventually only Woodhouse, with DS helping him.

They were looking for investment and tied a deal up with Baxi (yes I was around as it happened), Grey moved in with his finance director, they organised the deal to put PNE on the stock market, paying for a lot of the shares using the money in the Baxi pension fund . DS and Woodhouse owned a lot of shares in the club and GAVE them back to help the transition.

We went into a period of development , but guess who Grey used to do the football side? You guessed it, DS, he was doing nearly all the football business behind the scenes, Gray was the corporate frontman, he also brought in Tony Scholes as chief exec who worked with DS.

We got to a play off final, then suddenly Gray was resigning, stuff had gone tits up at Baxi, and he had lost the backing of the pension fund vote so would have been ousted by them, so he resigned before that happened.

That left our famous club as a listed business on the stock exchange but without a big backer, we struggled financially, we couldn’t get extra funds in because of stock market rules. We ran without a chairman for a while, then David Taylor and the other directors persuaded DS to do it.

It was financed by guess who, TH, with unsecured loans, and Friends of PNE, Owen McLaughlin, Steve Jackson, DS and a few others.

Eventually after a few other ups and downs we got to the point where TH did the takeover, like many others I lost my money but I understood that we had to get the club off the stock market and back to a private limited company to get the freedom to finance it without stringent stock market regs preventing it.

In my view DS put a lot of his own money into PNE over the years, and worked hard as a director and chairman for the benefit of the club, Brian Gray didn’t put one penny of his own money in.

DS and TH worked together for years behind the scenes looking after the club, and to me we went downhill with the Ferguson fiasco and then the appointment of that clown Lindsay who hadn’t a clue.

In my view DS has received awful criticism on here from fans who haven’t a clue about the real workings of the club behind the scenes, he was a local lad who made good, a genuine PNE fan, he certainly wasn’t Mr Personality or a corporate genius, he wasn’t in any way Mr Perfect, but he was 100% PNE.

The crap I read on here about him makes me feel sick. No wonder he has nothing to do with the club, the reality is that he was here and part of PNEs rise back from the lower divisions and the stadium development, it was after he left we were relegated, that wasn’t a coincidence.

Some of the best times were the teams brought together by Craig Brown, and then the poison dwarf, all with DS in the hot seat.

Throw as much unfounded shit at me as you want, I know the truth, I was there.

 

[europne]

And as for the bit about charging rent, FOPNE bought the legends building because the club couldn’t afford to, they stopped it from becoming a KFC or whatever and completely refurbished the building to be used for offices so the club could use it at a low rental, there is some question as the whether the club actually paid the rent.
Not the way you put it across is it?

 

[TheFulwoodEnd]

You haven’t a clue what really happened have you Fulwood, like so many others you need someone to blame and DS is the fall guy, well I will tell you the straight reality. Unfortunately you probably won’t accept it but here it is.

North End were suffering from the 50 directors ( just put in £10k ), most had buggered off leaving Leeming then Garrett and eventually only Woodhouse, with DS helping him.

They were looking for investment and tied a deal up with Baxi (yes I was around as it happened), Grey moved in with his finance director, they organised the deal to put PNE on the stock market, paying for a lot of the shares using the money in the Baxi pension fund . DS and Woodhouse owned a lot of shares in the club and GAVE them back to help the transition.

We went into a period of development , but guess who Grey used to do the football side? You guessed it, DS, he was doing nearly all the football business behind the scenes, Gray was the corporate frontman, he also brought in Tony Scholes as chief exec who worked with DS.

We got to a play off final, then suddenly Gray was resigning, stuff had gone tits up at Baxi, and he had lost the backing of the pension fund vote so would have been ousted by them, so he resigned before that happened.

That left our famous club as a listed business on the stock exchange but without a big backer, we struggled financially, we couldn’t get extra funds in because of stock market rules. We ran without a chairman for a while, then David Taylor and the other directors persuaded DS to do it.

It was financed by guess who, TH, with unsecured loans, and Friends of PNE, Owen McLaughlin, Steve Jackson, DS and a few others.

Eventually after a few other ups and downs we got to the point where TH did the takeover, like many others I lost my money but I understood that we had to get the club off the stock market and back to a private limited company to get the freedom to finance it without stringent stock market regs preventing it.

In my view DS put a lot of his own money into PNE over the years, and worked hard as a director and chairman for the benefit of the club, Brian Gray didn’t put one penny of his own money in.

DS and TH worked together for years behind the scenes looking after the club, and to me we went downhill with the Ferguson fiasco and then the appointment of that clown Lindsay who hadn’t a clue.

In my view DS has received awful criticism on here from fans who haven’t a clue about the real workings of the club behind the scenes, he was a local lad who made good, a genuine PNE fan, he certainly wasn’t Mr Personality or a corporate genius, he wasn’t in any way Mr Perfect, but he was 100% PNE.

The crap I read on here about him makes me feel sick. No wonder he has nothing to do with the club, the reality is that he was here and part of PNEs rise back from the lower divisions and the stadium development, it was after he left we were relegated, that wasn’t a coincidence.

Some of the best times were the teams brought together by Craig Brown, and then the poison dwarf, all with DS in the hot seat.

Throw as much unfounded shit at me as you want, I know the truth, I was there.

Well that certainly is an misleading narrative.

I don't recall posting anything that was unfounded which led to what seems a very personal attack against Bryan Gray (Who you don't even have the decency to spell his name correctly).

I really have no interest in what happened at Baxi but what I do know is that Bryan, Ben Casey, Lawrence King, Peter Chruch and later Tony Scholes involvement saw an almost unprecedented development of the football club. Had it been down to your best mate then we would have a stadium like Chester City.

What exactly did the FOPNE do for PNE?

Derek and Jackson sacked Tony Scholes as they thought they could run it part time.

Jackson cleared off as soon as he got his value, selling his shares to a joke of a party.

The FOPNE charged a higher than market value rent to the club for Legends.

You paint a picture that Trevor and Derek had some sort of fantastic relationship.. is that why Trevor shafted him and took his shares for peanuts?

Why is Derek the only former chairman not invited back? Why is he the only former chairman not listed in a honorary position?

Why did Mr. PNE rush off to the Venkies?

I have no doubt that Derek tried his best but he was so far out of his depth it was staggering... but at least we have the biggest building in Preston eh.

 

[europne]

Well that certainly is an misleading narrative.

I don't recall posting anything that was unfounded which led to what seems a very personal attack against Bryan Gray (Who you don't even have the decency to spell his name correctly).

I really have no interest in what happened at Baxi but what I do know is that Bryan, Ben Casey, Lawrence King, Peter Chruch and later Tony Scholes involvement saw an almost unprecedented development of the football club. Had it been down to your best mate then we would have a stadium like Chester City.

What exactly did the FOPNE do for PNE?

Derek and Jackson sacked Tony Scholes as they thought they could run it part time.

Jackson cleared off as soon as he got his value, selling his shares to a joke of a party.

The FOPNE charged a higher than market value rent to the club for Legends.

You paint a picture that Trevor and Derek had some sort of fantastic relationship.. is that why Trevor shafted him and took his shares for peanuts?

Why is Derek the only former chairman not invited back? Why is he the only former chairman not listed in a honorary position?

Why did Mr. PNE rush off to the Venkies?

I have no doubt that Derek tried his best but he was so far out of his depth it was staggering... but at least we have the biggest building in Preston eh.

On the contrary it is far more truthful than your view.

It’s not a personal attack in any way on BG, it’s exactly what happened, not the rose tinted view you have. He left in a rush after losing the support of the Baxi pension fund vote, they weren’t too impressed by his actions, check it out. He messed it up bigstyle.

Tony Scholes was a cost cutting measure, he was on a high salary and money was tight, he also spent a lot of time on the golf course instead of the office, I knew him personally, he was no big loss.

I don’t think I mentioned anything about DS and TH having a ‘fantastic relationship ‘ , that is something you have invented, but they were in contact on a regular basis and TH was the main source of funding, he was happy to do it, he was instrumental in signings like Mellor.

I am not aware that Legends rent was above the market rate, kindly back this up with figures please if you are going to say this, if you don’t know say nothing.....my understanding it was the other way round, with all the refurbishment paid for by FOPNE, and I believe there were long periods when no rent was paid.

Why is he not invited back? You tell me, as I mentioned before we took a nose dive after he left, that’s reality, he objected to the Darren Ferguson appointment and previous managers sacking, we all know that was a big mistake, followed by the appointment of Maurice Lindsay who lost the club a fortune as we were relegated. Perhaps TH is a bit pissed off that he made the wrong decision.

He didn’t rush off to the Venkys as you try to put another spin on the ‘ hate DS show’. He wasn’t at PNE, he was a free agent. The Venkys had taken over, put in Shelby Singh as global adviser, got themselves relegated and in a major financial mess. The Walkers got involved, they advised the Venkys to get someone straight headed with knowledge of the Championship and they knew DS and suggested him, he was offered a high salary, so it seems quite a straightforward decision. I spoke to him after his appointment and he said the whole deal had been done in a few weeks. He then had several months trying to organise the club and bring in cost cutting at the same time as dealing with the crazy stuff from the global football adviser until he was removed, haven’t heard much of him since. Rovers monthly outgoingswere similar to North Ends yearly outgoings.

I don’t think he was out of his depth at all, and for your information as you come down the M65 it still looks like the biggest building in Preston, or do you not agree with that either.

 

[tcinders]

On the contrary it is far more truthful than your view.

It’s not a personal attack in any way on BG, it’s exactly what happened, not the rose tinted view you have. He left in a rush after losing the support of the Baxi pension fund vote, they weren’t too impressed by his actions, check it out. He messed it up bigstyle.

Tony Scholes was a cost cutting measure, he was on a high salary and money was tight, he also spent a lot of time on the golf course instead of the office, I knew him personally, he was no big loss.

I don’t think I mentioned anything about DS and TH having a ‘fantastic relationship ‘ , that is something you have invented, but they were in contact on a regular basis and TH was the main source of funding, he was happy to do it, he was instrumental in signings like Mellor.

I am not aware that Legends rent was above the market rate, kindly back this up with figures please if you are going to say this, if you don’t know say nothing.....my understanding it was the other way round, with all the refurbishment paid for by FOPNE, and I believe there were long periods when no rent was paid.

Why is he not invited back? You tell me, as I mentioned before we took a nose dive after he left, that’s reality, he objected to the Darren Ferguson appointment and previous managers sacking, we all know that was a big mistake, followed by the appointment of Maurice Lindsay who lost the club a fortune as we were relegated. Perhaps TH is a bit pissed off that he made the wrong decision.

He didn’t rush off to the Venkys as you try to put another spin on the ‘ hate DS show’. He wasn’t at PNE, he was a free agent. The Venkys had taken over, put in Shelby Singh as global adviser, got themselves relegated and in a major financial mess. The Walkers got involved, they advised the Venkys to get someone straight headed with knowledge of the Championship and they knew DS and suggested him, he was offered a high salary, so it seems quite a straightforward decision. I spoke to him after his appointment and he said the whole deal had been done in a few weeks. He then had several months trying to organise the club and bring in cost cutting at the same time as dealing with the crazy stuff from the global football adviser until he was removed, haven’t heard much of him since. Rovers monthly outgoingswere similar to North Ends yearly outgoings.

I don’t think he was out of his depth at all, and for your information as you come down the M65 it still looks like the biggest building in Preston, or do you not agree with that either.

Derek going to Rovers was a bit of a strange one to say the least!
Howard Walker being Dereks best buddy perhaps had something to do with it?

 

[JK]

Tony Scholes was a cost cutting measure, he was on a high salary and money was tight, he also spent a lot of time on the golf course instead of the office, I knew him personally, he was no big loss.

I don’t think he was out of his depth at all, and for your information as you come down the M65 it still looks like the biggest building in Preston, or do you not agree with that?

Over the years we have had many debates about Derek's time as chairman and its clear that you will go to any length to defend his honour so there isn't really much point trying to discuss most of the points you have made to @TheFulwoodEnd

However, the two points above need to be responded too.

I spoke with Derek and Steve just after Tony left North End. Derek told me it was because he had his phone switched off on a Wednesday morning when he played golf. When in reality Jackson felt he could do the job part time between being CEO of New Reg and PNE. This of course was a huge mistake. Scholes was not everyone's cup of tea but overall did a very good job.

In terms of Jackson selling his shares behind Derek's back I am not sure why he did that. Although it's clear as day now that Jackson used his involvement in the club for his own gain and it worked a treat.

Now for the second point.

I was in the room when Derek said and apologises if this is not word for word it was a while ago.

"Deepdale is the biggest building in Preston, we don't need to advertise or promote the club, if the people of Preston don't want to come why should be bother."

We where all staggered... the fact people still refer to that conversation 20 years later shows the attitude and stigma associated with our clubs lack of engagement with the city or the fans.

You make a joke of it but christ in terms of a marketing strategy it's up there with KFC running out of chicken.

 

[ChrisR]

Just when I offered some support you offered a 1000 word essay 🤷‍♂️🤔😀

Christ almighty I wrote less for my dissertation at university.

Why do some people take such pride in having the attention span of a gnat? It's not funny and it's obviously not clever. As a diversionary tactic to avoid addressing any points it's about as transparent as Michael Gove.

 

[FredElseFlyer]

Why do some people take such pride in having the attention span of a gnat? It's not funny and it's obviously not clever. As a diversionary tactic to avoid addressing any points it's about as transparent as Michael Gove.

It is a talent to be able to write concisely and stick to the point, (something taught in schools and emphasised at university) .
Also long winded and boring repetitions are neither useful nor clever, and certainly not worth wasting time on.

 

[dawsonsjs]

That's very interesting Euro...clearly people had or have mixed feelings about DS. Like you I thought he was genuine and did his best although he wasn't the smartest. I had reservations when the Invincible was built and the contract handed straight to a TH company (could be maintained it was the best deal...I don't know) and later the cost shot up (could have been down to the price of steel but DS was loathe to answer any question on the subject). I've revised my views of DS downward somewhat because of things I've been told over the years but I don't want to repeat possible defamatory stories.

What is clear from your narrative though is the amount of support Hemmings has given PNE over the years. In theory AIM was a good idea..but it simply didn't produce enough by way of investment and the club could not even sell the full complement of shares allocated for supporters. I would take up one small point with you...nowhere near 50 people came forward to put £10,000 in order to become a director. (The same sort of issues arose as has occurred when fans groups have taken over as occurred at Chesterfield....they simply cannot generate enough income to run a club never mind take it forward...under the current financial structure of clubs in this country you need someone with capital like TH or the capacity to raise it). The one thing that did irk me though about the takeover, and I thought completely unnecessary, was taking the club private...rather than keeping it as a public limited company. The fans who bought shares had just 10% of the holding...to exclude committed supporters lwas an act of shooting yourself in the foot (the compulsory purchase at 5p a share adding an insult, fans did not buy the shares to make money bit to have a vested interest in the club).

I continue to maintain the way this was badly managed has continued to have an adverse impact on the club. Apart from knowing some who have never set foot in the ground again the fact that the club is a private limited company means that its dealings are opaque...fans can't get to the bottom of anything. The way the club is run is not even seen to be their business. Instead fans have to put up with the sort of inane rubbish spouted by Ridsdale..who must think fans are stupid. (For example, the claim that it was always understood that the Ingol development would only take place once the housing profit came in. You won't find this minuted anywhere. And in which case why start clearing the site? And how does housing profit flow back to the club when the land has been parcelled and sold to the likes of Bellway? And does this still mean that when housing profit is made £16m will come back to the club? Nobody should hold their breath).

The club's accountability to fans is abysmal...TH and his advisor clearly think there is no responsibility to do this, and legally they are in the right.
However, maybe, just maybe (because there are those who only want to believe their own opinions even if they are based on nothing but uninformed prejudice) if the club was more open and there were genuine fan communication channels...such as having a representative of fans as a non-exec director.... there would not be so much rubbish opined about TH's funding of the club and more appreciation for what he continues to do. It's not perfect but, comparatively, the club does very well for its size.

 

[Lord Edgington]

Why do some people take such pride in having the attention span of a gnat? It's not funny and it's obviously not clever. As a diversionary tactic to avoid addressing any points it's about as transparent as Michael Gove.

I am not as yet retired so suffer from a rather busy life
When I do watch this space………
Ps
I refer you to my learned colleague @FredElseFlyer s reply
Plus if you do as you suggest you’d read back and note I did offer some support to our rather long worded friend 👍

 

[LostinYorkshire]

And as for the bit about charging rent, FOPNE bought the legends building because the club couldn’t afford to, they stopped it from becoming a KFC or whatever and completely refurbished the building to be used for offices so the club could use it at a low rental, there is some question as the whether the club actually paid the rent.
Not the way you put it across is it?

Inaccurate drivel.