What's new
PNE Online
Welcome to PNE-Online. Why not register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox! You can also join up as a forum Patron to help support in the running costs of the forum.

English Independence

Should England become a Devolved Nation?

  • Yes

    Votes: 17 37.0%

  • No

    Votes: 21 45.7%

  • Unsure

    Votes: 8 17.4%
  • Total voters
    46
.
Realistic said:
It's not my opinion. I pasted the facts. It's there above. When one adds in the bilateral loan, the UK is exposed for EUR19.4 billion

Nothing to do with looking at it through rose tinted glasses. It's just a fact (according to that source anyway).
Click to expand...

The rose tinted glasses you’re wearing have indeed led you to see a “fact”. It’s just a fact that is rather off at a tangent. Probably because presenting a relevant fact would not have spared your blushes!

You said gave a clear impression that it was the good old UK that saved Ireland when their economy crashed.

The UK made a bilateral loan to Ireland to the value of 4% of their €85bn bailout whilst the other 96% came from non-uk institutions (including bilateral loans from other nations) - although the uk did have a stake in some of the other EU and IMF sources. So yes, we helped a lot but it wasn’t “England that bailed them out”.
 
Regardless said:
IMO, we should be looking to reduce the powers of devolution, not increase them.

I want to see a National Health Service - not several semi-autonomous versions of it. That ship is a long way off shore, as far as Scotland is concerned though - and probably Wales too - so how to deal with England is tricky.
Click to expand...
That's a perfectly legitimate view to hold, but as you say, the horse has already bolted really. Once powers have been devolved, it's very hard to reign them back into Westminster.
 
Sepp Blatter said:
Sure - they did. But, I remember a study a while back (think it was a John Curtice one), which found that a third of people supporting independence were not keen on joining the EU. My mates are in that boat and don't see the point of throwing out Westminster to be ruled by Brussels, especially if it means joining the Euro.

Not an attempt to resurrect the EU debate, btw, more a question on how Sturgeon is going to pitch a referendum. It's a tricky balance for her to find - similar position to Labour after the Brexit vote, I suspect.
Click to expand...
Another problem for her idea of selling independence as a way of rejoining the EU is that I'm pretty sure as it stands an independent Scotland would not meet the criteria for joining. And getting to a point when they do meet the criteria may be years and years, maybe decades away.
 
sedgwick__7 said:
Another problem for her idea of selling independence as a way of rejoining the EU is that I'm pretty sure as it stands an independent Scotland would not meet the criteria for joining. And getting to a point when they do meet the criteria may be years and years, maybe decades away.
Click to expand...
For me, EFTA makes perfect sense for an independent Scotland - Norway and Iceland have already said that they would be welcomed.

Plus, Scotland gets to keep its fishing rights, which will please the powerful fishing lobby in Scotland.

But, I wonder if the Eurosceptic independence voters would trust Sturgeon with that or perceive her as using it as a stepping stone to joining the EU?
 
Sepp Blatter said:
For me, EFTA makes perfect sense for an independent Scotland - Norway and Iceland have already said that they would be welcomed.

Plus, Scotland gets to keep its fishing rights, which will please the powerful fishing lobby in Scotland.

But, I wonder if the Eurosceptic independence voters would trust Sturgeon with that or perceive her as using it as a stepping stone to joining the EU?
Click to expand...
Scotland has no fishing rights, they were sold to foreign interests years ago. Not the EU either.
 
Regardless said:
.


The rose tinted glasses you’re wearing have indeed led you to see a “fact”. It’s just a fact that is rather off at a tangent. Probably because presenting a relevant fact would not have spared your blushes!

You said gave a clear impression that it was the good old UK that saved Ireland when their economy crashed.

The UK made a bilateral loan to Ireland to the value of 4% of their €85bn bailout whilst the other 96% came from non-uk institutions (including bilateral loans from other nations) - although the uk did have a stake in some of the other EU and IMF sources. So yes, we helped a lot but it wasn’t “England that bailed them out”.
Click to expand...
You're just one of those awkward gits that likes to split hairs, aren't you.
 
sedgwick__7 said:
Another problem for her idea of selling independence as a way of rejoining the EU is that I'm pretty sure as it stands an independent Scotland would not meet the criteria for joining. And getting to a point when they do meet the criteria may be years and years, maybe decades away.
Click to expand...


The Shetland Isles (only Lib Dem in Scotland) have already said that they will break from an independent Scotland leaving Sturgeon with only lucky white heather farms and scotch mist in a can factories as a source of income once the brass plates leave.
 
Realistic said:
No, dear boy. You're wrong. But I'm not going to pursue it because I don't give a damn anyway.

UK backing Ireland's bailout until 2042 | Lyddon Consulting
The UK is exposed both through its bilateral loan and by dint of the EFSM being part of the Commitment Appropriation of the EU Budget.

The UK Withdrawal Agreement contains a clause that makes the UK still open to claims that were part of the Commitment Appropriation as at the UK’s leaving date, so the current outstanding to Ireland out of the EFSM – EUR18.6 billion – could still come back onto the UK.

When one adds in the bilateral loan, the UK is exposed for EUR19.4 billion Again, despite exiting bailout, Ireland still owes EUR52.8 billion of its bailout money in total:
Click to expand...
See Reg's answer #84

Conflating UK loans with IMF/EU membership and financial commitments......still doesnt make you right!
 
paddysr said:
Love lorne sausage. There is a meat free version made for weirdos like me but difficult to get hold of down here

(I mean how much actual meat is in the normal ones!)
Click to expand...
Many decades ago as a student I used to work for 6 weeks every summer in a pork pie and sausage factory. You really don't want to know what goes into sausages (or pork pies, scotch eggs, pasties etc etc)
 
Top