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Israel/Palestine

What sanctions should we impose on Israel

  • None.

    Votes: 10 31.3%
  • Heavy economic and political sanctions - not dissimilar to those v Russia

    Votes: 20 62.5%
  • Notable sanctions but nothing as bad as those v Russia

    Votes: 2 6.3%

  • Total voters
    32
  • Poll closed .
That's about where I am, have these people on both sides got nothing better to do with their lives than stand around pointlessly and wave flags. Do they really think waving a flag in the UK is really going to change what Israel/Hamas do, thousands of miles away. If Israel want to keep on bombing Hamas/Gaza they will and like wise if Hamas want to keep firing rockets at Israel they will - no matter what any outside country might tell them.
Protests are intended to change the actions of your own elected officials - sometimes they do, sometimes they don't, but that is why protest lies at the heart of democracy. Protests might make little difference to Hamas or Netanyahu directly, but pressure from other nation's politicians can - whatever side of the political divide you are on.
 
Quite a debate going on in the US over the latest legislation to tackle antisemitism and the fears (from both sides of the political divide) that is a threat to free speech:


Some of the concerns from Dem and Rep lawmakers.




Some very genuine concerns that it impinges on First Amendment rights. Watching some people tie themselves in cognitive knots does show the fragility of free speech and the danger of politicization. On one hand, we have the people who demanded laws against hate speech with the intent of attacking the 'bigots' on the right - they were warned that these same powers could equally be used against them. Now, many are complaining about this legislation - perhaps they should have listened.

On the other hand, some on the right who complained that the 'woke' left was trying to take away their freedom of speech are now gleefully doing exactly the same, the hypocritical fucks. Free speech should never be a left/right issue or only supported when it suits your political views - you either believe in it or you do not.

Was going to drop this on the 'how the media works thread' but it seems to fit here with the discussion about protests.
 
Quite a debate going on in the US over the latest legislation to tackle antisemitism and the fears (from both sides of the political divide) that is a threat to free speech:


Some of the concerns from Dem and Rep lawmakers.




Some very genuine concerns that it impinges on First Amendment rights. Watching some people tie themselves in cognitive knots does show the fragility of free speech and the danger of politicization. On one hand, we have the people who demanded laws against hate speech with the intent of attacking the 'bigots' on the right - they were warned that these same powers could equally be used against them. Now, many are complaining about this legislation - perhaps they should have listened.

On the other hand, some on the right who complained that the 'woke' left was trying to take away their freedom of speech are now gleefully doing exactly the same, the hypocritical fucks. Free speech should never be a left/right issue or only supported when it suits your political views - you either believe in it or you do not.

Was going to drop this on the 'how the media works thread' but it seems to fit here with the discussion about protests.

is it really being suggested that someone could get a conviction for antisemitism if they compare Israeli actions for the German Nazis? Or being judged to have used a Jewish stereotype to insult someone?
 
is it really being suggested that someone could get a conviction for antisemitism if they compare Israeli actions for the German Nazis? Or being judged to have used a Jewish stereotype to insult someone?
That is the potential slippery slope - it is not clearly defined and open to interpretation and misuse. The other problem is that, in the US, free speech is highly protected - you have the right to speech that others deem racist, homophobic, sexist etc. This legislation - and similar 'hate speech' laws - seek to undermine that.

IMO, the Supreme Court may well strike this law down, but that will take time.
 
is it really being suggested that someone could get a conviction for antisemitism if they compare Israeli actions for the German Nazis? Or being judged to have used a Jewish stereotype to insult someone?
These articles offer a better description of the bill and how it is an indirect attempt to curtail speech:



What they are doing is trying to link the existing laws against discrimination (including antisemitism) to the IHRA definition and threatening institutions that do not comply. There are some problems with this - Firstly, it is a working definition that can change. Secondly, it includes the examples - which, even the man who wrote them believes is incorrect and dangerous.

(2) includes the “[c]ontemporary examples of antisemitism” identified in the IHRA definition."

Any university failing to apply this risks having their federal funding taken away.

Finally, as there will always be some who see no issue with this - if this sets a precedent, the same can occur against causes you support. What definitions are you going to use for islamophobia, homophobia, or transphobia etc.
 
Interesting to see some people's real thoughts. Dane Baptiste is apparently a well known, well liked and successful comedian. Or should I say "was".
His groveling apology post stating "I made a point to say zionist instead of Jewish" is very telling and indicative of a huge part of the "anti Israel" ( :unsure: :D ) movement.

Baptiste.jpg
 
I don’t know about Cottam but I’m disgusted at the lot of ‘em. Both sides. Most of them are either ill informed or choose to only listen to one version of ‘the truth’.
Every time we support Hamas, we support a horrific ideology. Every time we support Netanyahu we support war crimes. We should be clearer about what is and isn’t acceptable and then step away.
I've not seen anybody on here support Hamas so, as per, you're rattling soggy shit about whilst pretending to be the voice of neutrality.

There is is support for the Israeli state, though, a state led by Netanyahu.
 
I've not seen anybody on here support Hamas so, as per, you're rattling soggy shit about whilst pretending to be the voice of neutrality.

There is is support for the Israeli state, though, a state led by Netanyahu.
Playing the man not the ball - again.

And missing both.
 
Playing the man not the ball - again.

And missing both.
Not at all, like i said nobody is supporting hamas, 99.99999% of demonstrators arent either.

So Im afraid youll have to take your ball home in a sulk, again.

There are many who support the state of Israel in their actions, both on the streets and even on here.
 
I've not seen anybody on here support Hamas so, as per, you're rattling soggy shit about whilst pretending to be the voice of neutrality.

There is is support for the Israeli state, though, a state led by Netanyahu.
Playing the man not the ball - again.

And missing both.

Anyone who supports either has had a bump on the head......... How do you two spend most of your time on here having a pop at one another when in principle you actually agree ?
 
Not at all, like i said nobody is supporting hamas, 99.99999% of demonstrators arent either.

So Im afraid youll have to take your ball home in a sulk, again.

There are many who support the state of Israel in their actions, both on the streets and even on here.
99.99999%?

You know that how?

The rest of your post is also froth.
 
Anyone who supports either has had a bump on the head......... How do you two spend most of your time on here having a pop at one another when in principle you actually agree ?
I dislike lazy and/or inaccurate posts delivered with certainty, posts which are ad hominem and posts which put distraction ahead of debate.
It’s that straightforward.
 
I dislike lazy and/or inaccurate posts delivered with certainty, posts which are ad hominem and posts which put distraction ahead of debate.
It’s that straightforward.

You telling me off for calling Phil a con man when I know he agrees with you but won't admit it ?
 
You telling me off for calling Phil a con man when I know he agrees with you but won't admit it ?
Naah just explaining why we end up butting heads.
There are some threads I agree 100% with him on. For example, I have massive reservations about the farmer/burglar shooting thread until I’ve heard the whole story. I would imagine he is the same.
 
Naah just explaining why we end up butting heads.
There are some threads I agree 100% with him on. For example, I have massive reservations about the farmer/burglar shooting thread until I’ve heard the whole story. I would imagine he is the same.
yup
 
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