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Ukraine-Russia Conflict
- Thread starter Adam .
- Start date
JAYMAC
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Rumour going round that putin has blood cancer.
Can't say I've ever actually hoped someone does have cancer, but there we go, first time for everything.
There have been quite a few different rumours about his health, I just don't know if they're true or propaganda to destabilise or demoralise Russia.
Think they originally came from Christopher Steele, who is absolutely full of shit.
Whether there is any basis in these new ones, I don't know. Difficult to separate fact from fiction in this conflict due to the sheer amount of misinformation on all sides.
Ah right.
I always question these articles about leaders looking ill, especially when the experts wade in. The papers ran a few articles on Angela Merkel having shaking hands a couple of years ago during a speech I seem to remember. It gets people clicking and reading I guess.
Definitely seeing a shift in the narrative, even in the Western press, that things are not going as well as often claimed for Ukrainian forces in the Donbas and that the Russian Army is slowly but surely grinding its way forward. Something that has been apparent for a while according to many military analysts - even those who do not support Russia in any way.
Plus, many other MSM sources and even the Ukrainian government are now accepting that the Russians are making progress in the east. They are cutting supply lines, encircling Ukrainian forces, and moving forward. Changed their tactics and using their strengths.
How does Ukraine get out of this? If they can, how do they turn it around? It takes time to train men, especially with new weapons systems, then you have to arm them and supply ammunition - even more difficult when you are now importing weapons that are incompatible in terms of ammunition, fuel, parts, and repairs. That's before you consider that the Russians are targeting supply lines and trying to ensure that as few new weapons as possible reach the front lines.
Time to start looking beyond the barrage of propaganda, talking heads, and short term news and look at the reality and the long term picture. Is it time for serious negotiations? Can you even negotiate with Putin in good faith? A number of western politicians and media sources, such as the Guardian, are now discussing diplomacy.
www.theguardian.com
Lots of questions, but not so many answers, sadly. If Ukraine is to prevail, then the West has to do a much better job of sending meaningful supplies to the right places, not the present piecemeal approach (often semi-obsolete systems only with an eye on PR) that is causing logistical nightmares.
archive.ph
archive.ph
Plus, many other MSM sources and even the Ukrainian government are now accepting that the Russians are making progress in the east. They are cutting supply lines, encircling Ukrainian forces, and moving forward. Changed their tactics and using their strengths.
How does Ukraine get out of this? If they can, how do they turn it around? It takes time to train men, especially with new weapons systems, then you have to arm them and supply ammunition - even more difficult when you are now importing weapons that are incompatible in terms of ammunition, fuel, parts, and repairs. That's before you consider that the Russians are targeting supply lines and trying to ensure that as few new weapons as possible reach the front lines.
Time to start looking beyond the barrage of propaganda, talking heads, and short term news and look at the reality and the long term picture. Is it time for serious negotiations? Can you even negotiate with Putin in good faith? A number of western politicians and media sources, such as the Guardian, are now discussing diplomacy.
What hope is there for diplomacy in ending the Russia-Ukraine war?
Analysis: Western leaders are divided on arming Ukraine, oil embargoes and whether Kyiv will have to accept territory loss
www.theguardian.com
Lots of questions, but not so many answers, sadly. If Ukraine is to prevail, then the West has to do a much better job of sending meaningful supplies to the right places, not the present piecemeal approach (often semi-obsolete systems only with an eye on PR) that is causing logistical nightmares.
Definitely seeing a shift in the narrative, even in the Western press, that things are not going as well as often claimed for Ukrainian forces in the Donbas and that the Russian Army is slowly but surely grinding its way forward. Something that has been apparent for a while according to many military analysts - even those who do not support Russia in any way.
archive.ph
archive.ph
Plus, many other MSM sources and even the Ukrainian government are now accepting that the Russians are making progress in the east. They are cutting supply lines, encircling Ukrainian forces, and moving forward. Changed their tactics and using their strengths.
How does Ukraine get out of this? If they can, how do they turn it around? It takes time to train men, especially with new weapons systems, then you have to arm them and supply ammunition - even more difficult when you are now importing weapons that are incompatible in terms of ammunition, fuel, parts, and repairs. That's before you consider that the Russians are targeting supply lines and trying to ensure that as few new weapons as possible reach the front lines.
Time to start looking beyond the barrage of propaganda, talking heads, and short term news and look at the reality and the long term picture. Is it time for serious negotiations? Can you even negotiate with Putin in good faith? A number of western politicians and media sources, such as the Guardian, are now discussing diplomacy.
What hope is there for diplomacy in ending the Russia-Ukraine war?
Analysis: Western leaders are divided on arming Ukraine, oil embargoes and whether Kyiv will have to accept territory loss
Lots of questions, but not so many answers, sadly. If Ukraine is to prevail, then the West has to do a much better job of sending meaningful supplies to the right places, not the present piecemeal approach (often semi-obsolete systems only with an eye on PR) that is causing logistical nightmares.
Genuine question Sepp.. Do you think the West should wade in?... I know it's a kneejerk but is it? A lot of innocents are dying which will continue on and on. It's a difficult shout but I think the Russians need pushing back to Russia ( as it is now, not what it was ).
The West would win a conventional war hands down. Putin I fear would stand by his threats of going nuclear.
Yes, we need to do more to stop the slaughter of innocents in the Ukraine and yes the maniac that is Putin needs removing. Unfortunately, I don't know the answer of how to go about it without running the risk of Armageddon.
Personally - no (although I am definitely not a military expert!). Even if we take nuclear escalation off the table, the geopolitical ramifications will spread far beyond Ukraine (The Balkans, for a start, the Gulf, Turkey/Armenia/Syria, Taiwan, and further afield). It will risk starting conflicts elsewhere - will the West be able to send troops to all of these places if it is involved in a war of attrition in Ukraine? Do we have enough equipment? I am very wary of the propaganda stating that the Russian Army is useless and poorly equipped (a very dangerous assumption, IMO). They are not a bunch of AK-47 wielding fanatics driving around in Toyotas.
For me, the West is now realising that it is not as well supported as it thought it was - many countries in Asia, Africa, and the Middle East are not really going along with the sanctions and certainly would not condone military action. Maybe it is a sign that the world is changing and allegiances are shifting - a new Cold War, perhaps. The actions of western countries and our hypocrisy over the past few decades might be catching up with us.
Going to have to be diplomacy, IMO, however unpalatable that may seem. The Crimea and Donbas will become Russian, I think.
Considering it looks like Russia wants their pre- 1950s border back which would push Ukraine to one side of the Dnieper, do you think getting The Crimean Peninsula and Eastern Ukraine would be enough?
I too think there's going to have to be some give and take, a mutual kicking in the balls just to stop this.
No idea - I would like to think so, but whether Putin will negotiate in good faith is another issue. To be fair, you can say the same of the Ukrainian government - their history of keeping their word is not good, either.
Negotiations could be interesting - obviously dependent on the position of strength. The Russian advance could stall and a Ukrainian counterattack pushes them back, giving Ukraine a stronger position. Or, the Ukrainian front could collapse next week, giving the Russians the advantage.
I guess that we now have to start looking at the Russian point of view, because that will be important if there is to be an agreement. Outy and a few others pointed these out, but we were howled down and accused of being Putin lovers etc. The Russians have some genuine grievances that do need taking into account, otherwise any agreement is always going to be uneasy:
- The Ukrainian government's treatment of Russian speakers (and other minorities). The government cannot continue to discriminate against them.
- That the actions of the Ukrainian military/para-military in the Donbas are recognised. Had they followed up the Minsk agreements instead of continuing the conflict, things might have panned out differently.
- You cannot have a European country that wants to join the EU allowing neo-Nazis in its armed forces, and soldiers wandering about openly wearing Nazi regalia and symbols. Putin over-exaggerated wildly when he talked of de-Nazification - but, there is a grain of truth in what he said. No more excuses or turning a blind eye - the Ukrainian armed forces need purging and anyone with Nazi sympathies booted out.
- The NATO membership - we need to look at that.
Just a few ideas from someone who is not a military or geopolitical expert. Whether they are fair or practical is another matter!
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2005
- Messages
- 109,165
I feel almost embarrased by putting this here.
www.dailystar.co.uk
Vladimir Putin may be dead with body double taking his place, MI6 bosses claim
WORLD EXCLUSIVE: Russian leader Vladimir Putin might already be dead with MI6 sources claiming he could have been replaced by a body double. It follows intense speculation about the warmonger's health
www.dailystar.co.uk
I thought we saw the maximum possible level of BS and propaganda during the Syria conflict.I feel almost embarrased by putting this here.
Vladimir Putin may be dead with body double taking his place, MI6 bosses claim
WORLD EXCLUSIVE: Russian leader Vladimir Putin might already be dead with MI6 sources claiming he could have been replaced by a body double. It follows intense speculation about the warmonger's health
I was wrong - some of the stuff we see now is lamentable. I think that the entire Russian army has been destroyed three times already
I feel almost embarrased by putting this here.
Vladimir Putin may be dead with body double taking his place, MI6 bosses claim
WORLD EXCLUSIVE: Russian leader Vladimir Putin might already be dead with MI6 sources claiming he could have been replaced by a body double. It follows intense speculation about the warmonger's health
Pre-recorded messages and body doubles are more likely the signs of a paranoid leader than evidence of illness or even him being dead. Propaganda and doubt sewing of the highest order I reckon these MI6/Kremlin statements are.
I reckon, aside from paranoia, there's nothing mentally or physically wrong with him.
I feel almost embarrased by putting this here.
Vladimir Putin may be dead with body double taking his place, MI6 bosses claim
WORLD EXCLUSIVE: Russian leader Vladimir Putin might already be dead with MI6 sources claiming he could have been replaced by a body double. It follows intense speculation about the warmonger's health
Written by Boris ?
If it was The Sun, I might have believed it.I feel almost embarrased by putting this here.
Vladimir Putin may be dead with body double taking his place, MI6 bosses claim
WORLD EXCLUSIVE: Russian leader Vladimir Putin might already be dead with MI6 sources claiming he could have been replaced by a body double. It follows intense speculation about the warmonger's health